Why Aren't Probiotics Killed in Your Stomach (acid)
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The short answer is that a lot of the probiotic contents are killed by stomach acid.
They normally recommend taking them on an empty stomach with water. Your stomach has a mechanism that releases water rather quickly, so that helps more of bacteria survive.
Dan
They normally recommend taking them on an empty stomach with water. Your stomach has a mechanism that releases water rather quickly, so that helps more of bacteria survive.
Dan
hmm. I guess it makes sense then for vitamineral green to have awesome probiotics in it. since it is an alkaline product, that might help more to pass through alive.
Enzymes (optimum absorption +)
• Protease • Amylase • Lipase • Cellulase • Bromelain • Papain • Alpha-Galactosidase
Probiotics: HealthForce™ NSO Blend:
• Atherobactor agilis • A. citreus • A. globiformis • A. leuteus • A. simplex • Aceinetobactor calcoacetius • Azotobacter calcoaceticus • Az. chroococcum • Az. paspali • AZosirillum brasiliense • Azo. lipoferum • Bacillus brevis • B. marcerans • B. pumilus • Brev stationis • Kurthia zipffi • Phanerochaete chrysosporium • Streptomyces fradiae • S. cellulosae • S. griseoflavus
HealthForce™ Lactobacillus Blend:
• Lactobacillus plantarum • Lactobacillus bulgaricus • Lactobacillius paracasei • Lactobacillus rhamnosus • Lactobacillus salivarius • Streptococcus thermophilus
jfh
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Your stomach acid is your immune system's first line of defense. However, when we get older (40+) our body does not produce as much. This is why so many people have digestive problems. People choose to use apple cider vinegar, digestive bitters, enzymes, etc while eating, when they discover they have problems.
Stomach acid's purpose is more than digestion. It will kill most all pathogens, both good and bad.
My preference is to always take probiotics WITH food, even if they are enteric coated. I feel that they benefit by hiding with the food. Water does help to dilute the acids though, so following the bottle's label is probably best. When in doubt, take with food.
Bye the way, this is one reason why it is not good to drink anything while eating, unless it is water containing and acid such as apple cider vinegar.
Stomach acid's purpose is more than digestion. It will kill most all pathogens, both good and bad.
My preference is to always take probiotics WITH food, even if they are enteric coated. I feel that they benefit by hiding with the food. Water does help to dilute the acids though, so following the bottle's label is probably best. When in doubt, take with food.
Bye the way, this is one reason why it is not good to drink anything while eating, unless it is water containing and acid such as apple cider vinegar.
mommysunshine
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I get confused with taking probiotics too because I typically have some type of antimocroblal agent at each meal whether it's oregano, garlic, onion, coconut oil, or cinnamon. What a waste to take a probiotic if they get killed off before hitting the colon.
u&iraok
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Dr. Mercola says to take probiotics:
"20 minutes before meals otherwise the stomach acid tends to destroy 10-25% of the probiotic."
"20 minutes before meals otherwise the stomach acid tends to destroy 10-25% of the probiotic."
jfh
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I disagree. Stomach acid is lowest following a meal, not before it. Lactobacillus is one that is pretty resistant to the acids though. Yogurt is good for probiotics, because it is slightly alkaline.
The count of the probiotic is important too
If the count of your good bacteria is low such as 1 billion then yes, your stomach acid with destroy that very quickly and its almost like you didn't take anything at all.
But if your count is 8 billion or higher then it will destroy some but not enough to prevent you from gaining the benefits of the probiotic. Also if you get an acidophilus with a coating on it made for the stomach acid then you will get the most out of your probiotic.
If the count of your good bacteria is low such as 1 billion then yes, your stomach acid with destroy that very quickly and its almost like you didn't take anything at all.
But if your count is 8 billion or higher then it will destroy some but not enough to prevent you from gaining the benefits of the probiotic. Also if you get an acidophilus with a coating on it made for the stomach acid then you will get the most out of your probiotic.
Arrowwind09
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They are tough little buggers and generally enough survive to maintain health. Its antibiotics that they can't stand up to very well.
enteric coated products are great if it is a concern for you. Also the higher the bacterial count in them the better they will survive overall. This is why I like VSL#3
enteric coated products are great if it is a concern for you. Also the higher the bacterial count in them the better they will survive overall. This is why I like VSL#3
JanH
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"I disagree. Stomach acid is lowest following a meal, not before it. Lactobacillus is one that is pretty resistant to the acids though."
jfh, can you explain? I always though stomach acid was secreted to digest the food. Why would it be lower following a meal? You may well be right, it just doesn't make sense to me.
jfh, can you explain? I always though stomach acid was secreted to digest the food. Why would it be lower following a meal? You may well be right, it just doesn't make sense to me.
jfh
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Why is stomach acid lower following a meal? It is a matter of dilution. It is the same principle that makes people believe it is not good to have a drink with meals. I mean like tea or water. It dilutes the enzymes required for digestion. I think the only drink worthy of a meal is red wine or water with apple cider vinegar. Just a preference.
Yes. Stomach acid grows stronger when we eat and some is always retained in the stomach otherwise. But it is diluted when we drink and/or eat. Stomach acid production declines when we get older - about 40 and on. So you will find many probiotic bottle labels say with meal, or if coated, at any time.
Bacteria like sugar. Both good and bad bacteria. Yogurt is good, because it comes with its own sugar, lactose. You can only make water kefir, if you add a lot of sugar. Milk kefir already has a source of sugar. So recognize this when you take probiotics. Milk, if you can handle it, or carbs.
Yes. Stomach acid grows stronger when we eat and some is always retained in the stomach otherwise. But it is diluted when we drink and/or eat. Stomach acid production declines when we get older - about 40 and on. So you will find many probiotic bottle labels say with meal, or if coated, at any time.
Bacteria like sugar. Both good and bad bacteria. Yogurt is good, because it comes with its own sugar, lactose. You can only make water kefir, if you add a lot of sugar. Milk kefir already has a source of sugar. So recognize this when you take probiotics. Milk, if you can handle it, or carbs.
Ted_Hutchinson
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Persistence of probiotic strains in the gastrointestinal tract when administered as capsules, yoghurt, or cheese In practice it does survive the digestive process. The onion/garlic/leek family are all fructooligosacharoides that help probiotics reproduce. So they will multiply the numbers of bifidabacteria. It does take a long time to build up a friendly gut flora. (and to recover from antibiotic usage)
JanH
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Thank you, jfh, very clear explanation. Good reason to enjoy garlic and onions in my foods, Ted.
Ted_Hutchinson
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Involvement of gut microbial fermentation in the metabolic alterations occurring in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids-depleted mice
article on the topic here.
Prebiotics may restore metabolic alterations linked to omega-3 poor diets
Interesting to see that you can improve your omega 3 ratio by increasing your intake of Fructooligosaccharides. It's not that they actually contain omega 3 but they do encourage the production of butyrate which does in the colon what vitamin d does in the rest of the digestive system and that is act as an anti inflammatory agent. So by reducing your inflammatory status you spare the need to use omega 3 to resolve inflammation.
article on the topic here.
Prebiotics may restore metabolic alterations linked to omega-3 poor diets
breelion50
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I know it is difficult to know what kinds of bacterial and yeast strains and their volume exist in any kefir mix in a household. We can only hope that we have a robust and diverse bacterial/yeast mix and that we can keep it that way in how we make the kefir and age it. I make my own kefir and it has surely helped many people including myself but I still have questions that need to be answered so that I am not giving out incorrect information. Can anyone help?
My questions are these.
1. When one drinks kefir, it makes sense that we are only drinking the byproducts [metabolites] of the kefir grains, not the live bacteria and yeasts themselves. Is this true? If we are not drinking the live organisms themselves we can't really call this a "living food". If bacteria and yeasts can break free from the grain matrix and we digest them, how many and what kinds of bacteria/yeasts can we swallow? Perhaps we should be "eating" grains instead of drinking kefir elixor?
2. Since kefir is a liquid it cannot be enteric coated. So which bacteria/yeast strains can typically survive gastric juices and get to where they need to be in order to derive benefit?
3. Therapeutically speaking, how much kefir (milk or water grain-based) should one be drinking per day? What is the best time to ingest this stuff - before eating a meal or afterwards? How long before or after?
4. Is there any way at all that one can have their kefir tested for which strains and their corresponding volumes to be known? I can see this being a medical benefit for doctors prescribing probiotics - if they know exactly what ratios exist in the grains and/or in the elixor, they can prescribe a therapeutic kefir mixture that targets specific ailments. Maybe, maybe not.
Thanks to everyone who can help me with these questions
My questions are these.
1. When one drinks kefir, it makes sense that we are only drinking the byproducts [metabolites] of the kefir grains, not the live bacteria and yeasts themselves. Is this true? If we are not drinking the live organisms themselves we can't really call this a "living food". If bacteria and yeasts can break free from the grain matrix and we digest them, how many and what kinds of bacteria/yeasts can we swallow? Perhaps we should be "eating" grains instead of drinking kefir elixor?
2. Since kefir is a liquid it cannot be enteric coated. So which bacteria/yeast strains can typically survive gastric juices and get to where they need to be in order to derive benefit?
3. Therapeutically speaking, how much kefir (milk or water grain-based) should one be drinking per day? What is the best time to ingest this stuff - before eating a meal or afterwards? How long before or after?
4. Is there any way at all that one can have their kefir tested for which strains and their corresponding volumes to be known? I can see this being a medical benefit for doctors prescribing probiotics - if they know exactly what ratios exist in the grains and/or in the elixor, they can prescribe a therapeutic kefir mixture that targets specific ailments. Maybe, maybe not.
Thanks to everyone who can help me with these questions
jfh
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I think I can answer number 1 and maybe number 2.
I don't care if you are talking about milk or water kefir. The kefir is of no use until it is cultured. Cultured means that bacteria is formed (like with yogurt and sauerkraut). I don't know about yeast. I do not think kefir would contain any yeasts. Bacteria reproduces fairly quickly, so there will be a lot of probiotics when you are ready to drink it. The bacteria thrive in a sugar environment, which helps them to propagate. Both good and bad bacteria love sugar. The grains attract the good bacteria, so you don't have to worry about spoilage. However, the kefir will not last too long, because when the sugar is digested by them, they begin to die. Using milk, the bacteria thrive on lactose in the milk. Milk is alkaline, so drinking a glass (about 6 ounces) will help dilute the stomach acid. With water kefir, you have to add a lot of sugar for the culturing. But again, by the time you are ready to drink it, the sugar is gone. Once again, the water will help to dilute the stomach acids. It is the same for any liquid that you drink with your meals. The stomach acids are diluted.
I don't care if you are talking about milk or water kefir. The kefir is of no use until it is cultured. Cultured means that bacteria is formed (like with yogurt and sauerkraut). I don't know about yeast. I do not think kefir would contain any yeasts. Bacteria reproduces fairly quickly, so there will be a lot of probiotics when you are ready to drink it. The bacteria thrive in a sugar environment, which helps them to propagate. Both good and bad bacteria love sugar. The grains attract the good bacteria, so you don't have to worry about spoilage. However, the kefir will not last too long, because when the sugar is digested by them, they begin to die. Using milk, the bacteria thrive on lactose in the milk. Milk is alkaline, so drinking a glass (about 6 ounces) will help dilute the stomach acid. With water kefir, you have to add a lot of sugar for the culturing. But again, by the time you are ready to drink it, the sugar is gone. Once again, the water will help to dilute the stomach acids. It is the same for any liquid that you drink with your meals. The stomach acids are diluted.
Slain probiotics aren't a big deal
Joseph Neu of the University of Florida School of Medicine and his colleagues reviewed several studies that compared health impacts using live microbes versus those that had first been killed by heat or ultraviolet radiation. The dead bugs were just as effective as live ones, they report, but “considerably safer for the host.” For instance, they appeared less likely to provoke an overzealous immune response.
One study worked with Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG, better known as LGG. Researchers administered high doses of the bacterial strain to human cells that normally line the interior surface of the gut. When stimulated in a way that simulated the presence of a pathogen, the gut cells revved up a bigger inflammatory response than when the probiotics were absent. Both live and dead LGG induced fairly comparable responses — ones that would be expected to improve the gut’s ability to fight infection.
Then the researchers repeated the experiment, this time with gut cells that appeared healthy — i.e. not under siege by pathogens. Here, live LGG triggered significant inflammation. Which is not a beneficial response, since healthy cells might be slammed by deadly chemical shrapnel unleashed by immune cells. A similarly big dose of dead LGG caused only mild inflammation.
Joseph Neu of the University of Florida School of Medicine and his colleagues reviewed several studies that compared health impacts using live microbes versus those that had first been killed by heat or ultraviolet radiation. The dead bugs were just as effective as live ones, they report, but “considerably safer for the host.” For instance, they appeared less likely to provoke an overzealous immune response.
One study worked with Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG, better known as LGG. Researchers administered high doses of the bacterial strain to human cells that normally line the interior surface of the gut. When stimulated in a way that simulated the presence of a pathogen, the gut cells revved up a bigger inflammatory response than when the probiotics were absent. Both live and dead LGG induced fairly comparable responses — ones that would be expected to improve the gut’s ability to fight infection.
Then the researchers repeated the experiment, this time with gut cells that appeared healthy — i.e. not under siege by pathogens. Here, live LGG triggered significant inflammation. Which is not a beneficial response, since healthy cells might be slammed by deadly chemical shrapnel unleashed by immune cells. A similarly big dose of dead LGG caused only mild inflammation.
