How do I keep up with the information out here? I guess I just have to keep filtering things that make "medical sense" to me?
the amount of information "out here" these days can be overwhelming! Some of us on this forum have been at it for years, sifting through the "latest" and "greatest"
Just sit back. Relax. Read what you enjoy or what has meaning for you.
I certainly don't have time to go through it all! Just keeping up with Harry would cause me to have to quit my day job!
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
How do I keep up with the information out here? I guess I just have to keep filtering things that make "medical sense" to me?
Thanks for the link though.
I agree, but nutritional and altmed don't have to make "medical sense" so long as they're not harmful, and don't cause you to neglect some other effective treatment.
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For now we see through a glass, darkly.... 1st Corinthians 13:12
I disagree about things making medical sense. First of all, different supplements can work in similar ways so taking both might be not so good. Second, for me at least, I like to understand how things work in the body so I can make my own judgements about whether or not it's a viable treatment. I also need to defend my decision to add supplements to my friends treatment plan with him, and he's not a medical person. (I'm still hoping he finds an orthomolecular practitioner in Montreal)
He met with a naturopath who wanted to put him on over a dozen Heel products and I can't find any information as to their "mechanism of action" so I was very unsure about it.
He gets IV vitamin C 3 times a week, plus we are increasing his other oral vitamin/mineral supplements. Hopefully we are doing the right thing. His CT scan this week will most likely give us good news, because he is MUCH much better and has no symptoms of cancer anymore.
MsKathy, I, too, find it much more helpful to family and patients, if I can give them clear reasons why a herb or supplement might help them. Most people are sufficently educated and internet savvy now, to be able to check up on what we say, so it is as well if we can give a solid foundation to our recommendations. Your experience with IV Vit C may be helpful in persuading my husband that he should try it.
If I just say "I read about it on the Internet" - well, that isn't good enough for me so why would it be for someone I love, respect, etc? There is so much information available to us now, so it is often possible to work out what supplements are useful in any situation.
I agree, but nutritional and altmed don't have to make "medical sense" so long as they're not harmful, and don't cause you to neglect some other effective treatment.
What Iggy says is right in many ways.
For instance, I was talking to someone in Germany this morning. Her husband is supposed to take a statin meds, but is having so much trouble with muscle damage, that he stopped taking it. They have learned that a large dose of CoQ 10 will stop that statin side effect and allow him to keep taking the medication. His doctor knows nothing about CoQ 10, doesn't "beleive" in it and thinks it's nonsense. On occasions, "medical sense" is harmful to us, but I think MsKathy refers to an understanding of biological and chemical processes that she can relate to a particular situation.
I have to say that we need to remember that most doctors don't know anything about nutrition. As a nurse, I don't remember even ONE class related to it, so I imagine it's similar for doctors. We need to educate without scaring. We need to counter the doctor's needs for trials (placebo or not).
If we know that something works, and if we have good information, chemically, biologically, and experience, we need to try to educate the doctor's to stop using pharmaceuticals and start using vitamins/minerals, etc. But we NEED to let them have the chemical information so that it makes "perfect sense" to them. Which is basically what I, as a nurse, want.
He met with a naturopath who wanted to put him on over a dozen Heel products and I can't find any information as to their "mechanism of action" so I was very unsure about it.
He gets IV vitamin C 3 times a week, plus we are increasing his other oral vitamin/mineral supplements. Hopefully we are doing the right thing.
Back to reading!!!
MsKathy,
There are several doctors and naturopaths who use IV vitamin C in their protocols in my neck of the woods. One naturopath who is from Germany uses it with many of her cancer patients as well as an alternative chemo application called IPT.
But I have known people who used this IV vit c and died anyway. One was a lung cancer case. You have to understand, as I'm sure you do, that what works for one person may not work for another. This is due to Biological Individuality (see book by same name by Rodger Williams PHD, clinical nutrition) Now we understand that there is not only individual biological diversity in people but it can also be found in the microbes and cancers that we try to treat. It does seem that the chemo that was selected for him has met his biological individual needs as well as that for the cancer to destroy it. Of course it is not that chemo meets his biological needs but more that he is such a person where it has not damaged his system to much as it does for so many people. If this could only be the case for the masses instead of the few.
I can vouch for Heel products. They are most excellent homeopathic preparations, mostly in low potency and I have used many over the years with great success. They are nontoxic and they could greatly assist his biology to stabilize him and help functions to return to normal on the cellular metabolism level as well as on enzyme levels, as well as boost his defense system.
As far as the mechinism of action of homeopathics, well that is a long story. It is the only system of medicine I have found that has prescribing principles as well as principles for unlocking the knowledge of the healing potential of any herb, mineral or substance to be used in medicine. I have written on homeopathy and you can view the explanation of homeopathy here: https://www.healthsalon.org/80/homeop...ined-part-one/ https://www.healthsalon.org/92/homeop...ined-part-two/
I have never found an abundance of Heel literature on the net. The Dr who started it all is long dead, he was a German physician. DR. Reckewig. Heel formulations are based on his work but there are other companies who have taken his work into new directions, like GUNA. you can visit the Heel site: www.HeelUSA.com and because you are a licensed health professional you can register with the site and purchase them wholesale. They also use to offer an on line class. or maybe it was through the mail. https://www.heel.com/about/?smid=2
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
Thank you for that great reply. I think I need to be a bit more specific about his "recovery". I thought I could wait till the scan results. Forgive me if I repeat myself from my introduction.
He could NOT eat b/c of the tumor in his esophagus. He lost 50 or 60 pounds. (30 or 40 pounds beneath his "ideal weight") This was over the course of a few months. When the scoped him and did a biopsy (grrrr) they found both squamous and adenocarcinoma (poorly differentiatied, which is BAD). Then they did the CT scan and found his liver full of tumors.
On a physical exam, the docs measured the liver size, etc. Then about 8 weeks ago, they did it again. It is 2/3 smaller than it was.
I believe he was so anxious about "chemo" that it got harder and harder for him to eat. When he got home from the first chemo, he was sooo happy that he did it without side effects, he could eat!
Over the course of the next week, he went from hardly being able to eat, where he'd have to massage the esophageal tumor area to help food to pass, to being able to eat whatever and whenever. This happened before the second chemo!!! I do NOT believe the chemo helped him. I believe the IVC has created it's hydrogen peroxide in the cancer cells and has shrunk the tumors.
His liver enzymes are dropping to low end of normal. WITH chemo! He can't feel the tumor in his esophagus anymore.
I believe he has given himself years and years of good quality life. And he is stage IV! Once the chemo stops trying to KILL him, he's going to be much better. They've told him that this is a slow growing tumor, so... we have time to combat it... now that we know we have a foe to combat.
Yes, it makes sense but once the chemo stops killing him it stops killing the cancer also is my best bet.
Because he has thrush in the mouth you must really start thinking about he possibility of fungus in the esophagus and as a possible cause of his tumors.
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
Regarding that, I'm awaiting the first "Certifed orhtomolecularpath" course. I will be the first to trial it, according to Owen.
The thing is. I know the IVC has helped. I will know this week how MUCH it's helped. I need to put other things in place so he can live out his life. We need to step OUTSIDE the Vitamin C/chemo box. They are going to try to make him have more chemo, or else radiation, or surgery. I am so against this that it's making me ill.
After this cancer issue? I'm totally interested in all the other ways Vit C can help us. Have you heard about Owens book? Linus Pauling is a hero!!!!
I don't know your background, but I have to say at this point that chemo doesn't cure cancer. So I don't really wonder if it was the Vit C or the chemo. The best thing is, the chemo didnt KILL him...... yet. And the C is doing so much for him. I will post the CT scan results as soon as I have them. The scan is Tuesday.
I think that some here may be shocked to hear me say that I do think chemo kills cancer sometimes. It is unpredictable, and by and large is does not work, but yet there are cancer survivors who did use chemo.
If it were me faced with the decision I would not use chemo or I may select a form of chemo called IPT along with other alternative therapies.
I am far more skeptical of radiation, yet there is a form of radiation called pin point radiation that some people have success with. The ravages of radiation can cause way more pain and suffering than chemo, at least that is what I have seen.
BTW, MsKathy, I am also a nurse. I am currently doing hospice work but have done many types over the years. My passion is alternative medicine and I have studied homeopathy, ozone therapy, and I am currently trying to complete a clinical nutrition course, which I really should be working on right this minute but instead I'm surfing... I have also worked as a massage therapist and I have a passion for detox therapy done naturally, that is without the use of conventional drugs or applications such as chelation IV, if possible and I have guided people through detox protocols encompassing many different approaches.
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
Thanks for telling me you're a nurse also! Regarding the thrush/hoarseness issue? He wasn't hoarse before the chemo, and they found the thrush sometime around the 3rd course.
Could vitamin C jabs cure cancer? This man says it's put his prostate tumour into reverse
By Jerome Burne
Last updated at 2:11 AM on 19th August 2008
A Check-up six months ago revealed Denis Vaughan's prostate cancer was becoming more active.
Vaughan, an orchestral conductor and one of the driving forces behind the creation of the National Lottery, has had prostate cancer for 12 years.
Because the tumour wasn't considered aggressive enough for surgery or radiotherapy, his consultant at University College Hospital had agreed on a policy of watchful waiting, while Denis kept it at bay with diet and exercise.
Alternative treatment: Conductor Denis Vaughan used a treatment which involved infusing vitamin C into the bloodstream and it seems to have worked
Then, his prostate specific antigen (PSA) score, which measures how active the tumour is, went from 13 to 18.5 'and the watching became a bit anxious'.
His oncologist wanted him to take drugs or begin radiotherapy, but Vaughan, who is a strong believer in a natural approach to health, preferred to try a treatment offered by his London GP that involved infusing vitamin C into the bloodstream.
He underwent weekly treatment - with up to 75 grams of vitamin C at a time (the recommended daily amount is 60mg).
The treatment, which cost �100 a time, appears to have worked - after seven weeks, his PSA dropped back down to 13, a level described as moderately elevated, and he's back on watchful waiting. His oncologist has said he now doesn't need to see Vaughan for another year.
It's an unorthodox approach, but one that seems to be backed up by research published earlier this month, which found that injecting large amounts of vitamin C into laboratory mice with aggressive and hard-to-treat tumours, caused the cancers to shrink by between 41 and 53 per cent.
The American study - reported in top science journal Proceedings Of The National Academy Of Sciences - was greeted cautiously by UK cancer experts.
They emphasised that there is no evidence from clinical trials that Intravenous Vitamin C (IVC) is effective in humans.
'Some research even suggests that high doses of antioxidants can make cancer treatment less effective,' warned Dr Alison Ross, science information officer at Cancer Research UK.
'It could actually reduce the benefits of radiotherapy and chemotherapy.'
Experts also say that while the doses seem comparable to the official daily amounts, there is a big difference between injecting the vitamin directly into the bloodstream - circumventing the body's own defences - and getting it in food or as a pill.
Hundreds of patients in the UK have already received IVC as a treatment for cancer - without apparent side-effects.
Dr Julian Kenyon, a private GP in Harley Street, says: 'What the American study shows is that when you infuse amounts as high as 4 grams per kilo - the equivalent of around 75 grams for an average adult - vitamin C causes a build up of a chemical called hydrogen peroxide, which destroys the tumour.'
Dr Kenyon has treated more than 100 patients over the past ten years with IVC and claims there is now quite a body of experience about how to use it.
'We've found that it's not so good for tumours in the brain, the lung and womb because you can get a build up of fluid.
'We've had very good results with the kidneys, though. Cancers here don't respond well to chemotherapy, but we have been able to shrink them enough for an operation. It's not a cure-all and you do need to have good veins because you are putting in a couple of litres of liquid as well, several times a week.'
The chief researcher of the American trial, Dr Mark Levine of the American National Institutes of Health, has been investigating vitamin C's cancer killing abilities for several years.
He's already shown that it's effective in a test tube and, two years ago, he published a report on three patients who were treated for serious and advanced cancers and survived far longer that would normally be expected.
'We now know that the vitamin C gets into tumours in large amounts and that it kills them by causing a build up of hydrogen peroxide.
'That's the same stuff that's used as bleach but cells in your body also use it to defend themselves,' he says.
In fact, vitamin C is hardly a new anti-cancer treatment.
It was famously used by double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling more than 30 years ago, who found that terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C lived much longer.
However, when his trials were repeated at the prestigious Mayo clinic in America, the researchers found no benefit.
Proponents of vitamin C point out the clinic only used oral vitamin C which can work differently.
'Actually, the finding that vitamin C is a potent anti-cancer substance goes back even further,' says Dr Steven Hickey, who has researched vitamin C and cancer at Manchester Metropolitan University, and written several books on the history and chemistry of vitamin C.
'The discovery that hydrogen peroxide kills tumours in mice was made in 1957, and less than ten years later researchers found that vitamin C would selectively kill cancer cells without harming normal cells,' he says.
Other researchers achieved similar results to Pauling's, including some in Japan in 1982 and the eminent Canadian psychiatrist Dr Abram Hoffer of Saskatchewan University.
'They found that very high doses could boost survival times of terminal patients by four to five times,' Dr Hickey says.
One of the researchers in the latest American study, Jeanne Drisko, professor of orthomolecular medicine at the University of Kansas, is now running human trials to test for safety and tolerability of the treatment in humans, and is also just starting a trial to test it against hepatitis C.
Her unit also currently offers IVC to patients. She says they carefully monitor patients for signs of trouble.
Among those offering the treatment in the UK is Dr Damien Downing, the president of the British Society for Ecological Medicine.
'The Society has protocols and standard procedures in place and we make it clear that it is an experimental treatment,' he says.
'We also always work together with someone's doctor and most of the patients we treat have it together with regular chemotherapy.'
But everyone agrees that IVC needs more research. The question is, since you can't patent vitamin C, who is going to pay for it? Not the drug companies.
'This is just the sort of thing that public money should be spent on,' says Dr George Lewith, of the University of Southampton, who assesses complementary and alternative medicines for the National Cancer Research Institute.
'I would be strongly in favour of running a proper clinical trial of IVC as soon as possible. Until then we should proceed cautiously.'
Thanks Liverock. In fact, Julian Kenyon is about 4 miles south of here, in the Dove Clinic. I think there is a website about him and his therapies.
I can't work out just what the protocol is - the article you posted says IVC once a week, and Kenyon says several times a week. I must check on his website. Knowing what I know about our local celebrity alternative practitioner, it will cost a whole lot more than �100!!
I have also worked as a massage therapist and I have a passion for detox therapy done naturally, that is without the use of conventional drugs or applications such as chelation IV, if possible and I have guided people through detox protocols encompassing many different approaches.
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