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Old 11-12-2007, 08:04 AM
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Default High-fat Atkins diet damages blood vessels

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High-fat Atkins diet damages blood vessels

The high-fat Atkins diet can cause long-term damage to blood vessels, as well as inflammation that is linked to heart and artery disease, U.S. researchers reported on Tuesday.

In contrast, low-fat regimens, such as the Ornish diet, lowered cholesterol and appeared to benefit artery function, they said.

"It really is the Atkins diet that is the worst," Dr. Michael Miller, director of preventive cardiology at the University of Maryland Medical Center in Baltimore, said in a telephone interview.

"The Atkins diet caused the LDL levels to go up by about 7 percent, whereas in the Ornish and Pritikin diets ... they went down 7 to 10 percent."

Low density lipoprotein or LDL is the "bad" cholesterol that clogs blood vessels.

Various researchers have tested the benefits of the popular diets and reached wildly differing conclusions. Miller designed what he said was a unique approach -- to see how people fared once they stopped losing weight on any of the diets.

Studies show that people usually lose weight rapidly on any diet if they follow it properly and the weight loss itself can cause cholesterol to go down.

"When you are losing weight, everything looks good, but after a while you plateau and you hit a maintenance stage," said Miller, who presented his findings to a meeting of the American Heart Association in Orlando, Florida.

His team studied 18 people, each of whom completed a full month on each of the three diets. They were carefully monitored to ensure that they did not lose weight. The Atkins diet was set to deliver 50 percent of calories as fat, the South Beach was 30 percent fat and the Ornish diet, designed by nutritionist Dr. Dean Ornish, was 10 percent fat.

While on each diet the volunteers were tested for levels of blood fats, including cholesterol and markers for inflammation. The researchers used ultrasound scans to measure the flexibility and dilation of blood vessels and measured proteins in the blood that can indicate inflammation. All of these measures worsened during the Atkins phase of the diet.

"Some markers of inflammation were increased by as much as 30 to 40 percent during the Atkins phase, whereas during the South Beach and Ornish phases, the markers either were stable or went down, some by as much as 15 to 20 percent," Miller said.

Most studies have shown that diets that stress vegetables, low-fat sources of protein such as beans and legumes, and whole grains provide the best long-term weight loss.

"We don't recommend the Atkins diet," Miller said. "Why not start out with a diet that will be healthier for you in the long run after weight loss?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Cinque
I would not have included this article if the study was based only on measuring blood lipds, such as LDL, the so-called "bad cholesterol." All that is just theoretical and statistical, and it may not have any bearing on a particular individual. However, the arterial dilation and flexibility tests are very concrete, and they do pertain to the particular individual involved. There is no denying the significance of those tests, and there is no way to talk around the results. It goes to show that those kind of diets- where you load up on meat and cheese and eat them with complete abandon- is really unhealthy, and it doesn't matter which famous name you attach to them. As I said last week, you don't have to be a vegetarian, but the only foods you should be eating with complete abandon are unrefined plant foods.
https://www.1to1vitamins.com/news/2007/artl6668.html
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:49 AM
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Default Kind of fats?

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't note that the nature of the fats
used in the test were mentioned.

Some years back I embarked on an Atkins-like diet in that
I increased my protein and fats and reduced carbos, but
I selected primarily higher quality fats. I seemed to benefit
greatly. For me it was not a weight issue--that did not change.

Sorry, I just can't trust conventional docs on this.
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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If anyone's interested, here's a rebuttal by a low-carb expert (Dr. Michael Eades):

https://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2...blood-vessels/

https://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/2...e-aha-meeting/
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:45 AM
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Of course hight quality fat is essential. So is keeping homocystine levels in check if that should be an issue for you.
My carotid arteries are picture perfect as are my cholesterol levels. Doc can't find anything to suggest Im heading for trouble.

If you are not the right blood type Adkins diet could be a problem. As I am an 0 I do very well, thank you.
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:31 PM
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I'm O+ and the Atkins diet made me feel lousy. Also went through OptiFast and it made me feel like death warmed over. OptiFast is a low fat diet. Cheated and took fish oil capsules and immediately felt better. Do best on unprocessed carbs and fish. Eat a lot of fat, but little is from red meat. Try to avoid transfats but Harry alerted me that the CLA that I take, has transfats.

Former business partner was very successful in losing weight on the Atkins diet. He has since had a heart bypass.

My best old Marine buddy, a bio-scientist inventor in California, used to write web reviews on the best bbq rib restaurants. He now has neuropathy and gangrene in his legs, and has had strokes.

I believe the real killer is excess calories from animal fats and processed carbs....plus lack of exercise.

Last edited by Iggy Dalrymple; 11-12-2007 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added a thought
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:32 PM
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Default Dr. Atkins..

Iggy, thanks for posting this information on the Atkins diet. Alot of people lost weight, but many died, including Bob Atkins, after suffering a second heart attack.
I don't agree with his diet, however, I have nothing against him personally. In fact, Dr. Atkins was one of only a few doctors that were using ozone therapy.
For that reason I admire the man..
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:19 PM
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Default O+,O- or in between!!

Hey O+ Iggy. My dog tags are stamped just O, but mine were
made a long time ago--July 1, 1941. Seem to recall that O negative
is universal, but not sure.

What is the significance/difference in the O group?
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor View Post
Iggy, thanks for posting this information on the Atkins diet. Alot of people lost weight, but many died, including Bob Atkins, after suffering a second heart attack.
I don't agree with his diet, however, I have nothing against him personally. In fact, Dr. Atkins was one of only a few doctors that were using ozone therapy.
For that reason I admire the man..
This old chestnut - what killed Bob Atkins - revives again and again. Here is Snopes on the subject.
https://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:44 PM
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Whether he had a heart attack, then fell down, or just slipped and banged his head...
The fact remains that he was only 72 years old when he died.
That is much too young.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donee View Post
Hey O+ Iggy. My dog tags are stamped just O, but mine were
made a long time ago--July 1, 1941. Seem to recall that O negative
is universal, but not sure.

What is the significance/difference in the O group?
Dr. Peter J. D'Adamo wrote a best seller book, "Eat Right 4 your Blood Type". Some of his type O stereotype fit me, but supposedly type O's are supposed to thrive on high protein. Some of his "science" doesn't hold up.

He's become very rich pushing false science.....just like the global alarmists.

Scorpio became more expert on D'Adamo's dietary theories that he. She went toe to toe with him and I'll let her tell the rest of the story.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor View Post
Whether he had a heart attack, then fell down, or just slipped and banged his head...
The fact remains that he was only 72 years old when he died.
That is much too young.
I don't think there is any age limit for dying from banging one's the head.

I wonder what Atkins necropsy said about his vessels and heart?

Gerry
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:27 PM
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Default Bob Atkins and his health/diet..

Gerry, the information from the following site is from Dr. Joel Fuhrman, and he states:

https://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...thupdated.html

Another interesting site on the Atkins diet:

https://atkinsdietweightloss.blogspot...rt-attack.html
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Hey O+ Iggy. My dog tags are stamped just O, but mine were
made a long time ago--July 1, 1941. Seem to recall that O negative
is universal, but not sure.
Donee, Both O positive and O negative are universal blood types. I am learning alot about blood donations...
According to the book from gulf coast blood drive folks:

Quote:
Blood type: The presence or lack of one or more of the two distinct chemical molecules present on the surface of the red blood cells. If the red blood cell has only A molecules on it, the blood type is A, and if the red blood cell has only B molecules on it, the blood type is B. If the red blood cell has a mixture of both molecules, the blood type is AB, and if the red blood cell have neither molecule, the blood is type O
We have started lining up blood drives... Wonder how we could do a forum blood drive... I know.... Our first blood drive for grandson is November 24, so everyone on the forum go give blood that week and then post it on the forum!!!!
Ok, enuff highjacking the thread... get me started talking about blood nowadays, just aint safe!!!!! :~)
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor View Post
Gerry, the information from the following site is from Dr. Joel Fuhrman, and he states:

https://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...thupdated.html
That is the first time I have seen epidural hematoma mentioned. Everyone always wants to concentrate on the "heart attack" aspect of the poor man's history.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor View Post
Gerry, the information from the following site is from Dr. Joel Fuhrman, and he states:

https://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...thupdated.html

Another interesting site on the Atkins diet:

https://atkinsdietweightloss.blogspot...rt-attack.html
Thanks for the links.

I find it funny how people push their own agenda.

The first post of this thread cites an article which called Atkins "high fat." The first link given above says "high meat."

But Atkins (as I understood it) is neither high fat nor high meat. It's low or zero carbs.

While the fat and protein will proportionately increase if one decreases or eliminates carbs, the protein does not have to be from meat. They may even be all from plant sources (seeds, nuts, beans, etc.). There are even some web pages out there showing a vegetarian approach to the Atkins diet (though they admit it's difficult, unless the veggie also eats eggs and milk products).

So the way I see it, Atkins is low/zero carb. If articles such as those cited blame fat, well it was already pointed out that the type of fat must be specified. If they blame meat, then it's not really the Atkins diet that's at fault but the ones selecting meat in preference to other protein sources.

Just things I thought about...

Personally, I think the zero carb approach is extreme. Besides, there are other ways to control blood glucose and insulin levels besides diet, notably physical activity and/or exercise.

Gerry

Last edited by bifrost99; 11-14-2007 at 02:37 PM.
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