Dr. Douglass has been against any form of heavy exercise and is just satisfied with walking.

His Nov 24 2007 Newsletter (Daily Dose) has the headline:

Yeah, right. We don't exercise and we can be strong as a bull just by taking his creatine-taurine-betaine-magnesium citrate-potassium-calcium-vitamin D formula?

He actually contradicts himself because he says his supplement will maintain muscle, but he does not say that we must first exercise so that we can have any muscle to maintain! and exercise with a lot more than just walking.

I wonder why he hates exercise so much. (Well, he says taking out the trash is enough strenuous exercise. That probably shows what shape he's in.)

I've been bicycle commuting for years. Definitely a lot more than his recommended walking. And yet, my heart-lung capacity decreased in all those years! It was only in the recent months, when I took up Tabata interval workouts (click here for thread) that I started regaining the heart-lung capacity I had as a youth.

Walking is all that we need? Yeah, right. I wonder how much muscle his supplement will preserve for him?

Okay, that issue was an ad for something he sells. But his newsletter has been showing his disdain for exercise (other than the very strenuous walking).

Gerry

Do you know why it decreased?

I don't know the real cause, and most likely there are several causes. All those years I've kept up my workouts, but they were mainly geared for strength and skill (and I would say that my strength never waned). Along the way, I also gained some weight, and some fat (you know I consider the two different ). Although I was an obese kid, I slimmed when my height shot up in my teens.

I never really dealt with my cardio-respiratory capacity, thinking that my daily bicycle commutes took care of any aerobic "need."

Apparently, I was wrong. Aerobics is not even needed, but rather, anaerobics, as provided by interval training.

Now I know that just like muscle, the heart and lungs must be pushed to their limits regularly if they are to gain, or maintain, greater functional capacity. Steady, aerobic-type activity just won't do it (limits are never reached, so the body is not stimulated and does not adapt). In my case, it adapted by becoming weaker (heart-lung capacity) because the extra capability was not needed, or was not being required. Not at all different from muscles becoming smaller and weaker when not being used.

For now, I concentrate on regaining my heart-lung capacity, and Tabata interval training continues to prove its effectivity. As for the strength I have, it's quite easy to maintain, or even increase.

And in all these, I keep wondering just how Dr. Douglass is doing with his strenuous exercises of walking and taking out the garbage.

I could only see myself in a very sorry state if all I did was walk. (Although walking is still a lot better than not exercising at all. And there are various ways of walking in the martial arts that can give one a strenuous workout, but I doubt that Dr. Douglass does those.)

Gerry

Gerry, the heart is a muscle.

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Exactly. That's why we must treat it like other muscles.

We strengthen a muscle by working it to its limits. There's no reason for the heart to be treated differently. (Though Dr. Douglass would not like us to push both heart and skeletal muscles to their limits.)

Gerry

I maybe wrong, but as I understand it. It is not a matter of never stressing a muscle to its limit but rather stressing it to its limit and maintaining that level of stress for an extended period of time. Such as a marathon runner running in a race.

It may be a matter of definition as to what "limit" means or applies to.

I think that if a muscle is pushed to its strength limit, it cannot maintain that for more than a few seconds. A marathon runner is not reaching his limit. He is actually pacing himself so that he does not reach his strength or endurance limit until just before the end of the race. (Of course his training allows for some speed even when running well below his limit.)

Just how I see it.

Gerry

Gerry.. there shouldn't be any harm if I do my little jog one day, and do your 4 minute thing every other day. alternate them.

I think that's what I'm going to try.

I was thinking about this, and if you look at the couch to 5K program that I've been doing... the beginning weeks are very much like this. and you make quick progress. It really is suprising. You think.. how can they up it that much?.. then.. you find out you are able to do it. And I think this is part of the reason, because if it is hard for you at the beginning, that 1 minute of running, or 3 minutes, or 5 minutes.. is pushing it. then you walk, then run.. and this is a type of interval training. but, I've been staying at 25 minutes.. and frankly, this is fine for me.

but, I think I would like to try this on the off days. what do you think?

No problem!

I regard the Tabata interval training, and any interval training, as mainly for the cardio-respiratory system, or heart-lung capacity. But activities we have involve more than just heart-lung capacity. The 5K run target of the program you're in involves leg strength, leg endurance, and skill (proper running technique), and these have to be trained for separately. For sure, interval training can be part of the strength/skill/endurance development and vice versa. But to concentrate only on the 4-minute Tabata protocol would definitely not be enough for separate strength, skill, and endurance development of our legs. It would definitely improve our heart-lung capacity, but it does not directly develop leg capacities. So definitely, your jogging apart from the 4-minute program is needed. I myself, still do other exercises apart from Tabata intervals.

I searched for "couch to 5K" program and found these:
https://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Pr...k_overview.htm
https://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Ro...om_scratch.htm
https://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Pr...ve_program.htm
https://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Pr...ve_program.htm

Looking over the tables, definitely interval training is a principle involved. No wonder you find yourself improving quickly. If you like, even the "All Running" phases can be done interval style by varying the speeds so that you also have exertion-recovery phases, all done running. You'll have greater improvement than if you ran those at constant speed. I would say that the program itself is a form of interval training, so you may not even have to do separate Tabata type workouts.

To me, any exercise is good, even the strenuous walking of Dr. Douglass . The key is progress, either in terms of time, resistance, speed or repetitions. And apparently, this is what Dr. Douglass seems to refuse to acknowledge, being content that we just walk and take out the garbage. And for heart-lung capacity, I think the key is to avoid a steady pace, but to vary, as interval training provides.

See how your resting heart rate changes.

Gerry

I forgot to put the link in my post.. but I'm glad, because I wasn't aware of this other couch to 5k program. guess they have a few.

This is the one I did, and you can see what I mean about intervals:

https://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml

However, I think the fact that I've been walking regularly for an hour or over at a good pace for a few years helped a lot. My legs/knees already had some strength.. although since starting this program, it has definitely made a difference in those areas. I feel a little stronger in the hip/knee/ankle area. and I think it is because they seemed to design this program to push you.. but not push you over the edge. Also, if I feel any sharp pains, or anything unusual, I stop. just walk. but, I've only had to do that a couple of times. Sometimes, you just have an off day.

I decided to stay at 25 minutes.. just because right now, it feels right? no other reason.. but good enough for me. When that becomes too easy, then I will bump it up a bit. plus, for me, there is a time factor.. I'm usually fitting the gym in between other things, and I like to also use the lower body machines at the gym while I'm there.

but, I hope by spring, I will be ready to try jogging some pretty bike trails in the area. something zen about those trails.. good for the spirit as well as the bod

No need to bump up the time, unless you really want to. Just bump up the "resistance" by running faster for the exertion phase, while running slow (instead of walking) for the recovery phase.

The web page you gave uses the word "jog." I think this sorts of limits the speed of the run. Think "run" instead of "jog" and you're free to go at whatever speed you'd like. Me, I find jogging to be boring, but I know I'd enjoy a good run.

I think you could actually insert Tabata intervals in your 25 minutes. "Complete" Tabata protocol is at least 14 minutes: 5 min warm up, 4 min Tabata protocol, 5 min cool down. The 4 min protocol can easily be inserted into your 25 minute run. But you'll have to run or otherwise max out your heart-lung capacity in the 20 sec exertion phases. Of course, you may not want to max out, but as long as we avoid a steady pace in the run, our heart-lung capacity will improve dramatically. (Legs might be a different matter, but you said you've already developed in that area.)

Gerry

I think I had reached a "maintenance phase" in walking. but.. I also like long walks outside when the weather is good.. because it is good for the soul. the spirit.. it is uplifting. I don't think these activities are just about muscles, just as I think food is not just about nutrients. just as sex is not just about procreation.

but when I started running (I'll call it that, because anything was running to me as it was all hard).. I noticed a definite increase in strength in legs and especially in the hip area. Just felt different. I'd say "tighter".. but that doesn't completely explain it as there is more "fluidity" of movement? I don't know.. maybe when you move that area more, you end up being "able to move it" easier. maybe the movement helps the joints? I don't have hip pain, but, I like the difference.

I also wonder if the up and down movement, similar to rebounding, stimulates the lymphatic system.

I think exercise in general just puts you more in tune with your body. and for me this is especially good as I think I have an inclination to be a bit cerebral, and ignore the physical. But we are physical as well as spiritual creatures. It says in the bible "therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's"(1 Corinthians 6:19-20). the body is a gift that we should take care of. I think exercise as well as eating responsibly is a part of this.

Exercise also develops and maintains equilibrium which is so essential for aging. Good balance can be the dividing live between life and death for an old timer.

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that makes sense. you are moving and your body is working muscles to maintain your position (so you don't topple over).. so, I guess you are also getting a balance workout everytime you do any kind of exercise.

good point.

like that old saying?.. you don't use it, you lose it.

Gerry, At my age I think I'd be safer in sticking with walking or biking.

You once mentioned a positive effect in gripping something tightly with the hands, thus improving one's blood pressure. Do you think carrying heavy jugs of water on my walk would have that effect? I'm thinking of trying to tote two 5gallon jugs around my .6 mile loop. That may be too much for that distance.

I remember when I was a kid, my dad won $50 on a bet that he couldn't tote a 100# sack of feed 6 miles without a rest. At the end of the 6 miles, he flipped the sack to his other shoulder and offered to carry it back for another $50. His challenger declined.

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