LOL - I shall be watching you both, then. I expect you both to sky dive on that day, but my bet is that, 50 years after that, Neal will have the keener edge.
I hope I won't divert this conversation; but my curiosity is out of control.
How good/bad is powdered milk? Just curious, because it can be stored longer for someone who only uses milk occasionally. It has been very many years since I have drunk milk. I would not mind using it in my cold cereal again (instead of juice or almond milk).
__________________
- Jim
Last edited by jfh; 03-20-2008 at 11:00 AM.
Reason: punctuation
I've read that powdered milk isn't healthy because it's highly oxidized.
One theory:
Quote:
The LDL/HDL issue is also phoney and does not stand up to rigorous scrutiny. LDL is necessary to carry cholesterol from the liver to the cells, particularly to the brain cells, which unlike other cells in the human body, do not manufacture cholesterol. However, it is true that oxidized LDL is a problem, and does initiate foam cells in the arteries. Oxidized cholesterol is found in products that have been heated to very high temperatures in the presence of oxygen, such as powdered eggs and milk. Powdered eggs are added to many processed foods and powdered milk is added to 1% and 2% milk to give it body. People drinking reduced fat milk in order to avoid heart disease are actually taking in large quantities of oxidized cholesterol which is a causative factor. You are also right in pointing out that high levels of commercial polyunsaturated oils (virtually all of which have a high N6 to N3 ratio) increase LDL oxidizability. It is the excess of polyunsaturated oils that cause the problem--not the saturated fats, whether in the modern diet or in traditional cuisines. In fact, SFAs have been shown to lower Lp(a) which, unlike total serum cholesterol, HDL or LDL, is a very good marker for increased risk of CHD. (5) https://www.scdiet.org/7archives/lutz/paleo2.html
__________________
For now we see through a glass, darkly.... 1st Corinthians 13:12
jfh - I would feel uneasy about using powdered milk. If it's not in it's natural state, it has been interfered with by a marketing process, so that makes it suspicious in my mind. But Iggy has provided a very clear reason for my unidentified unease.
Iggy - you are a star! Thanks.
I dont drink powdered milk, but I do use it for a relaxing bath once in awhile... Supposedly milk is good for the skin also. I have heard stories that cleopatra invented the milk bath, not sure how true it is!
__________________ God is and all is well
~John Greenleaf Whittier~
Well I suppose getting asses milk would be as easy as getting milk from any other animal, but imagine how many asses it would take to get a bath tub full!
__________________ God is and all is well
~John Greenleaf Whittier~
MadSci... Do you have the link to the article you posted of Dr Douglass, saying that raw cows milk has probiotics? Im glad this thread was bump back up... The new born grandson has eczema, and we have been trying to fix it... Ricebran oil solved the problem areas on his body, but didnt seem able to clear the head problems... We discovered that he would break out with the normal baby soaps, so started him on some goats milk/teatree oil soap... but at the same time, we also started him on raw goats milk (tar syndrome babies normally have milk allergies, and he positively cant do cows milk so far.) The problem areas on the head are clearing up beautifully. But now after re-reading this thread, Im wondering if raw goats milk also has the probiotics and that maybe this article posted in the other forum is correct...
According to this article, infants with poor intestinal flora often develop eczema.....
Just me:
Found two articles. Not sure if they are the one you want.
Quote:
Dear Friend,
"We drink raw milk because we trust the traditional food chain more than the industrial one," said Nina Planck, author of "Real Food: What to Eat and Why."
Now that's a quote I never thought I'd see in the New York Times! And it's just part and parcel of an entire topic I never thought I'd see there, either: The growing popularity of raw milk.
I wouldn't exactly call it a glowing review, but at least it didn't paint raw milk drinkers in too much of a lunatic light. At the very least, it alerted people who didn't know milk came from anything other than a giant metal storage container to the fact that there are more natural (and far better) options available.
Most of the article focused on the growing raw milk industry, and I think it's impressive enough to bear repeating here�
Sally Fallon, the president of the Weston A. Price Foundation, one of the nation's most vocal raw milk proponents, estimates that more than half a million people in the U.S. now consume raw milk. And I'm not just talking about the stereotypical toothless hillbilly that "doesn't know any better."
"You cannot categorize the people who are drinking raw milk. They are people from the blue states and red states, farmers and yuppies and Birkenstock wearers," Planck said.
Nowhere is that more evident than in New York City, where Wall Street moguls and starving artists can stand side by side waiting for a weekly clandestine drop of raw milk. Why the secrecy? I'll tell you why�
The laws regarding raw milk differ from state to state�and in New York, the only place you can legally get raw milk is on the premises of a farm that's been approved by the state. And last I checked, most New Yorkers don't like to be bothered with weekly trips to an odiferous dairy farm�hence, the covert drop sights�
On the other side of the country the raw milk business is booming as well. Organic Pastures Dairy Company, the first raw milk dairy in California with certified organic pastureland, expects to gross $1 million MORE this year than it did last year (jumping from $4.9 to $6 million). And that's juts ONE dairy. (No wonder the dairy industry is starting to sweat�)
Of course, the article had its thinly veiled biased comments, hailing people involved in what they're referring to as a "movement" as risking "illness or even death to drink their milk the way Americans did for centuries: straight from the cow."
But that's to be expected, as is the mainstream's udder ignorance of the REAL facts about raw milk.
There's more to this story, and you can read all about it in my very own milk book, called The Raw Truth About Milk. Whether you're sitting on the raw milk fence, or you're a die-hard enthusiast, this book is a great read (yes, I'm a little biased). If you order now, my publisher has agreed to cover the cost of shipping.
The books will be in stock this fall, but you can place an advance order for your copy now by calling (888) 856-1452 or (915) 855-5416. Use the Order Code MILKBK.
Feeding you the raw, unpasteurized truth,
William Campbell Douglass II, M.D.
p.s. As you might expect, raw milk's increasing popularity has the dairy industry � and the Center for Disease Control, too � grasping at straws to discredit one of Nature's most nutritious (and delicious) food sources.
The story goes much deeper than you'd ever imagine, and I'll tell you all about it in the October issue of The Douglass Report. I'll also give you plenty of ammo to defend the safety of raw milk � and to prove its numerous health benefits. You won't want to miss it!
Raw milk enters presidential politics
Dear Friend,
You're going to hear more than your fair share of political endorsements in 2008, and I don't want to become yet another screaming voice in this year of high-intensity punditry. But now that the primary season is upon us, I do want to draw your attention to a candidate that shares many of my beliefs. You may have already figured out that I'm talking about Congressman Ron Paul.
I'm sure you've already heard about his somewhat under-the-radar, grassroots campaign for president. Paul is the ultimate long shot, and he's a man who speaks his mind. A man willing to accept the unpopularity of his so-called unconventional beliefs. He's a contrarian and is known for voting "no" on all legislation that's not expressly authorized by the Constitution. In other words: He's my kinda guy.
But this isn't about a political endorsement. I bring up Ron Paul because he's taken a strong public position on a subject that is very near and dear to my heart: raw milk. Right now, too many of you are being deprived of your right to drink raw milk. Paul is trying to change that. Last November, he proposed a raw milk free trade bill to Congress.
I find it incredibly encouraging when someone who's actually running for president isn't ready to tow the Big Government line and blindly back the government agencies. He not only agrees with me, he stands by his principals! (If he keeps up with this kind of behavior, they'll take away his membership in the American Politician Club!)
Of course, Congressman Paul didn't just take this stand because of the potential health benefits of raw milk�he took it because it's the constitutionally correct stance. The Federal government has no business limiting the sale of raw milk. It's simply beyond its constitutional jurisdiction. If Congressman Paul's bill becomes law, it would give the freedom of choice back to you, the consumer, and allow you to take control of your own health by determining for yourself whether the milk you consume is pasteurized or raw.
This is really a variation on the argument against mandatory vaccination. It's a matter of personal freedom � just as it should be up to you and you alone what is (or is not) injected into your body, so should the consumption of raw milk be a choice that's free of government constraint.
Congressman Paul's proposed free trade law for raw milk could be in the nick of time. California � one of only four states that has less restrictive raw milk laws � has just enacted a law that could doom raw milk there.
Keep reading�
New law restricts raw milk in California
According to new state regulations, raw milk in California must now meet a strict limit for coliform bacteria. But while raw milk is already routinely tested for the strains of coliform bacteria that cause illness (strains such as E. coli, salmonella, listeria, and campylobacter), the other forms are left in the milk ON PURPOSE. That's because the strains that don't make you sick are actually part of what makes raw milk so good for you�those teeming cultures of bacteria and live enzymes. Can you see the dilemma here? As for common sense, don't look to the FDA. Their response to the new limits on raw milk in California was, of course, a ringing endorsement. An FDA manager compared drinking raw milk to "playing Russian roulette with your health."
But according to Mark McAfee, managing partner of Organic Pastures Dairy, California's largest producer of raw milk, the new standard is really a stealth attempt to ban raw milk. "It basically prohibits raw milk in California," he said.
I'm inclined to agree with McAfee. Strangely, this bill was passed into law WITHOUT public debate � and the state's two raw milk dairies were not informed of the bill in advance. It's just got to make you wonder.
McAfee claims that this move represents a de facto ban on his product, and he says that the new standard will be impossible for his 350-cow dairy to meet consistently because coliform bacteria are so common in the environment in general, and in cows in particular. All of this in spite of the fact that there's been exactly ZERO incidences of illness- causing bacteria in the milk from his dairy.
The new law is just as upsetting to raw milk consumers, some of whom believe that they'll be driven "underground," bound together in buying clubs that will purchase the banned milk directly from the dairies.
A black market for milk? It shouldn't have to be that way � and Organic Pastures is seeing to it that it isn't. They're leading the way in the legal fight for your right to raw milk � and they're making some great headway, too. Go to www.OrganicPastures.com to keep up-to-date on this very important legal battle, and to see how you can help them out in the process.
Udderly disgusted with the state of America's milk,
Wow, we've got a hot one here! Lots of strong emotions, borderline name calling, and a few vaguely insulting insinuations. I have strong opinions too, but I honor everybody's right to speak their truth. We're here to educate one another and express our feelings without fear of judgment.
Conversations are much cooler when people speak from a place of comfort. I suggest we all take a few deep breaths, allow ourselves to calm down, and proceed with respect for all parties involved.
I am a firm believer in Natural Law. There are some things that just seem to happen because of the way the world works. Hardly scientific, but the entire history of the Earth, as we know it, is the basis for my opinions. Obviously, we can find some scientist somewhere to back up whatever our opinion is, regardless of the opinion.
One question I would like to pose to the group is: Why is it that cow and goat milk seem to be okay while nobody even addresses the idea that we don't drink elephant milk? We don't drink weasel milk, dog milk, cat milk, or whale milk, either. I would guess the idea of that would gross out a lot of the people here. Doesn't sound so wholesome any more, when you think of it that way. It's all about perspective.
My point is that many of the statements being made are based on our culture rather than anything truly scientific. If I started arguing in favor of drinking milk from elephants, I'd bet many of the people who are proponents of dairy consumption would backpedal on their stance.
Likewise, the non-dairy folks may change their stance a little if they were stranded on a desert island, starving to death, and someone offered them a chunk of cheese or some organic yogurt. They'd probably think it was pretty darn cool, in fact. My guess is, they'd eat it. I would. Unless it was made of weasel milk...then I'd have to think it over.
I do think it's peculiar that humans are the only animals that, under ordinary circumstances, drink milk or eat dairy products after the very early stages of life. My cat will certainly not turn his nose up at a bowl of cream, but that isn't exactly a food he'd find in a natural environment. It's also true that wild mammals don't drink milk after being weaned. Again, I'm not basing this on science, just common sense.
Cow and goat milk has some ups and some downs. Generally, I don't advocate drinking much cow or goat milk or eating large amounts of dairy products. Large amounts have a tendency to cause mucus formation in adult mammals. It also has a tendency to be constipating. Constipation sucks. I'm guessing I won't get any arguments on that one. Milk also provokes strong allergic responses in many folks. All these factors should be taken into consideration on a case by case basis. Listen to your body, it'll oftentimes set you straight.
For the record, I think pasteurized dairy is a bad idea and dairy produced on factory farms is unethical, toxic, unhealthy, and disgusting. The fact that there are allowable amounts of blood and pus in factory farmed milk is just plain wrong. That doesn't even take into consideration the antibiotics, artificial hormones, and other known toxins. The way cows are treated in factory farms is monstrous. There is absolutely no justification for treating other living creatures without respect.
See, I told you I had strong opinions. To finish up, I don't think cow or goat milk are the healthiest foods in the world but I don't think it is necessary to completely avoid it. Raw fermented cow or goat dairy can play a role in a healing diet, but the amount has to be considered. Stay away from the weasel milk, though. It's a bit funky.
Spirit R - "Lots of strong emotions, borderline name calling, and a few vaguely insulting insinuations."
Gee! I missed the drama again? Darn! Maybe it is because I try to miss the drama. I don't even see it here. This is an old thread. Things change.
Spirit R - "Why is it that cow and goat milk seem to be okay while nobody even addresses the idea that we don't drink elephant milk?"
Well from my experience, cows and goats sometimes kick the pail during the milking process. I would not want to mess with elephant attitude.
Spirit R - "My point is that many of the statements being made are based on our culture rather than anything truly scientific."
True. We don't need science to enjoy foods. Many African tribes have been domesticating cows for longer than written history. For meat, blood, and milk. Chinese nomadic tribes have been using yak milk for centuries too. I'm currently using a probiotic that is cultured by using yak milk in the product, called Yakult. People have been using animals' milk for millenniums as well; at least according to religious scripture. I wonder what reindeer milk would taste like.
I haven't had any milk for ages; but I like processed milk products; such as yogurt and cheese. I'm happy with the probiotics and enzymes.
__________________
- Jim
The following user thanked jfh for the above post:
Milk generally comes from domesticated animals, and that is what determines what animals Milk is used for Humans.
You certainly could drink Buffalo Milk, but since it is one of the most ornery and undomesticated animals, it simply is not practical to get yourself killed trying to milk it.
Cat milk is not produced in large enough quantities to be practical either, and I do not think a milking machine small enough has been produced. Heeeere kitty kitty kitty.
. To finish up, I don't think cow or goat milk are the healthiest foods in the world but I don't think it is necessary to completely avoid it. Raw fermented cow or goat dairy can play a role in a healing diet, but the amount has to be considered. Stay away from the weasel milk, though. It's a bit funky.
Linear Mode
