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† #16
Old 12-13-2008, 11:31 AM
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I think I will order the TDS1 because even without the sale price it's worth it to have something to compare to. I will get new batteries for my other one meanwhile. Thanks!
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† #17
Old 12-13-2008, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Man View Post
I like the way the Utopia FAQ's handles the issue, both here:

Which colloidal silver is most effective, ionic or non-ionic?

and here:

Utopia Silver Supplements - Ionic Vs. Non-Ionic
Beach Man, I looked up the owner of the silver-colloids site. It turns out, it is the same person that is the owner of the purestcolloids.com site which sells the meso series (meso-silver, meso-gold, meso-copper).

silver-colloids.com site:
Quote:
64.106.134.92
Network Whois record
CustName: Purest Colloids
Address: 213 Irick Rd.
City: Westampton
StateProv: NJ
PostalCode: 08060
Country: US
RegDate: 2005-07-26
Updated: 2005-07-26

purestcolloids.com

Quote:

64.106.134.91

Network Whois record
CustName: Purest Colloids
Address: 213 Irick Rd.
City: Westampton
StateProv: NJ
PostalCode: 08060
Country: US
RegDate: 2005-07-26
Updated: 2005-07-26
both sites registered the same day, and yet there is nothing about the link between purestcolloids.com and this site on the aboutus page. personally, I don't think this is very honest, but.. it won't be the first time I've seen this.


This is a colloidal silver of the kind that the silver-colloids.com site is saying is superior. so, imo, this opinion might not be objective.

and.. to show the other side, silvergen shows some tests that come to a different conclusion.. so I don't know what to think about which is better.

Ionic versus Colloidal Silver
Quote:
There is considerable discussion and controversy regarding whether ionic silver or particulate (colloidal) silver is more efficacious. This has been discussed on the silver-list by many of the members; some of them having chemistry and/or medical backgrounds. It is claimed by MesoSilver that colloids are more effective at killing pathogens. Their product is about 90% colloidal while most ionic/colloidal silver is typically 75-95% ionic. They claim that ionic silver is converted to silver chloride in the stomach by coming in contact with hydrochloric acid, thereby becoming ineffective.
The company Natural Immunogenics, manufacturer of Argentyn 23 claims the ionic portion is more effective at killing pathogens. Their product is about 95% ionic. In order to resolve the dispute Natural Immunogenics performed kill studies using a controlled comparison that diluted both MesoSilver and Argentyn 23 with hydrochloric acid to neutralize the ions in MesoSilver. Then the two were diluted to 20 PPM each so the comparison would have validity. They then combined the remaining fractions of Mesosilver and Argentyn with two strains of Staphylococcus Aureus. The dilutions were placed on petri plates and graded as to their effectiveness in killing the pathogens.
Please see the test results here. Look near the bottom right side of the report for the in vitro kill rates. This should resolve the issue. It seems clear the ionic portion is more effective at killing pathogens.
However, based on my own personal results with what is mostly ionic silver, i think that is fine for my purposes.
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† #18
Old 12-19-2008, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientest View Post
I have posted this before but those who haven't seen it.


Make your own CS.

I copied this some time ago, don’t know the author.
However what I found interesting was the comment at the end.



  • 1. Buy a 6 volt DC transformer for about 5 clams. Better yet, pick up one at a flea market for .50. The current doesn't matter as this method uses less than one ma.
  • 2. Clip the connector off the end of the wire.
  • 3. Get two alligator clips from Radio Shack for a buck.
  • 4. Carefully separate the two wires. Strip the insulation off for about 1 inch.
  • 5. Connect each lead to the clip.
  • 6. You need two electrodes. Don't waste $15.00 for 1/4 oz. pieces of silver wire. (which is what I did.) Go to a any coin store and buy two Canadian Maple Leafs for about $6.50 ea. Each has 1.2 oz. of .9999 pure silver, enough to make more CS than you will ever use.
  • 7. Buy a gallon of distilled water for about .70.
  • 8. Buy a tiny fish tank bubbler machine for about 8 bucks. They will have the neoprene tubing as well. You will need about two feet.
  • 9. Be sure the coin is squeaky clean. Clamp them to opposite sides of an 8 oz. glass of distilled water.
  • 10. Place the tubing to the bottom of the glass.
  • 11. Fill the glass with distilled water ONLY up to the bottom of the clips. One does not want the metal, from the clips, in contact with the water. (right , a definite no no.) only the coins.
  • 12. Plug in the little transformer and oxygenation machine.
  • 13. Run for about five hours.
  • 14. Carefully remove the coins. There will be residue on them and you don't want that in the solution. For even more purity, use the neoprene tubing and siphon the solution into a clean glass/or plastic container. (In these parts a siphon hose is referred to as an "Arkansas credit card".)
  • 15. Keep the CS out of sunlight in an air tight bottle.
  • 16. Clean the coins thoroughly preparing for the next batch.

Now you have high quality CS in about 5 PPM. Some scoundrels claim their CS is 100-800 PPM. This is rubbish. At such concentrations the particles would agglomerate forming much larger particles. Basic chemistry.


Last night I spoke with Frank Key, the scientist who owns the laboratory. He observed, "You have stumbled on to a fine way to make CS." He did state that the potency would diminish over time and suggested that one make a new batch every fortnight. Considering that costs you nothing it makes sense.

He said the secret was the low voltage and the fish pump. I thought it was due to more oxygen in the water. He stated it was because of the introduction of carbon dioxide, explaining in chemical terms which were over my head. The fish pump in 100% vital to the process.
I wish that he had explained about the carbon dioxide..

you would be combining Ag + H2O + CO2 + energy... but i don't know enough about chemistry to know what this would produce.

about the fish pump, I was reading this tonight.
Before You Buy a Colloidal Silver Generator
Quote:
The problem is this. Distilled water is a fairly good insulator. With a constant voltage connected to silver electrodes in distilled water, the initial current flow is very low because the water has high resistance to electron flow. However, as the silver ions and particles finally do start to accumulate in the water, the resistance in the water goes down from the conductive silver content now building up.
All the silver is coming off the anode (positive electrode) as ions (single atoms, missing an electron). They carry a positive electrical charge because of the lack of that electron. However some of them are able to connect together and share an electron in their outer ring. When this happens they are then locked together and no longer carry an electrical charge. They are then called a colloid (cluster of atoms).
The ions are dissolved into the water just as salt or sugar will dissolve in water. The water becomes conductive because of the ions. This causes the current flow to increase and as a consequence, the silver particles begin to increase in size (they attract more ions to themselves, like a growing snowball.) As more silver is torn from the electrodes, the process is accelerated until one has to stop the process because the particles become so large they begin to fall out of suspension.

One way to prevent this is to quickly separate the ions from each other so they do not share an electron ring. It is done by stirring the water to disperse them. This can be done by mechanical stirring, thermal heating or bubbling air through the water. All these methods will do the job but there are some drawbacks to thermal and bubbling methods. Thermal stirring works best in lower volumes of water. It is not advisable to use any heat system that warms the water too much since that will contribute to an increase in particle size. As an example it is alright to use a small wattage light bulb under the production vessel but it would not be appropriate to use a larger volume container and place it on a hotplate because the water would become too warm before the process was complete. There would be a preponderance of large colloids and the water would most likely turn yellow colored from the large particles. If the particles grow large enough to reflect light, yellow will be the first color seen.
Using a bubbler can introduce carbon dioxide into the water. It can also pump any dust in the air through the water. On average there are about 10,000 dust particles per cubic foot of air at floor level. That number decreases as you move up but nevertheless the air is "dirty". One can also introduce gasses from the tubing and pump if it is manufactured from low grade plastic.
We use mechanical stirring because it does not introduce any contaminants and is completely controllable instead of relying on variables such as water temperature and/or quality of air being pumped.
something to think about. you want to produce silver ions.. not silver compounds. so, you want basically only silver and distilled water in the mix and not anything else. I think it is when you have other things in the mix that you might have problems ingesting it, if that is your thing.

It probably doesn't make that much difference for external application, but still.. you want it as clean, simple - just water and silver ions - as possible.
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† #19
Old 12-20-2008, 07:22 PM
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I donít think I would be too worried about the CS being contaminated by blowing air through it. First you only want a tiny amount of air, just enough to cause a slight turbulence in the water. Second any out gassing from the materials the pump and tubing are made of will undoubtedly be very minuet and that will even decrease as the parts age.

Now while it is technically correct that you are pumping dirty air through you solution still during the time that it takes to make a batch of CS you will probably have breathed in 10 times that amount, or more, of this same dirty air and with no serious side effects.

If there is still a concern I guess one could add a filter between the pump and the CS solution.
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† #20
Old 12-20-2008, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientest View Post
I donít think I would be too worried about the CS being contaminated by blowing air through it. First you only want a tiny amount of air, just enough to cause a slight turbulence in the water. Second any out gassing from the materials the pump and tubing are made of will undoubtedly be very minuet and that will even decrease as the parts age.

Now while it is technically correct that you are pumping dirty air through you solution still during the time that it takes to make a batch of CS you will probably have breathed in 10 times that amount, or more, of this same dirty air and with no serious side effects.

If there is still a concern I guess one could add a filter between the pump and the CS solution.
actually, when i read that, I assumed the concern was not with whether the solution would be "dirty", but more with the idea that you might be introducing other things that the silver could combine with. I think the idea is to try to isolate the number of elements reacting, so you only have the silver ions and silver colloids being created in a solution of distilled water. I think the idea is to minimize the silver compounds that might be formed.

but, you are right.. probably isn't much depending on how long you run it.

I still wonder what the carbon dioxide does to the whole process..
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† #21
Old 12-21-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpiotiger View Post
I still wonder what the carbon dioxide does to the whole process..
Letís see our air is made up of about 78% nitrogen and about 21% oxygen. The remaining 1% is composed of traces of other various gases. Even though the most abundant of these is carbon dioxide (CO2) if my memory is correct it weighs in at a whopping .03%. So I will take a wild guess and say that it is unlikely to have any measurable effect.



What's more Iím sorry Al Gore but CO2 at .03% is also not causing global warming and providing government with more tax dollars is not going to fix it.
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† #22
Old 12-21-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Scientest View Post
Let’s see our air is made up of about 78% nitrogen and about 21% oxygen. The remaining 1% is composed of traces of other various gases. Even though the most abundant of these is carbon dioxide (CO2) if my memory is correct it weighs in at a whopping .03%. So I will take a wild guess and say that it is unlikely to have any measurable effect.



What's more I’m sorry Al Gore but CO2 at .03% is also not causing global warming and providing government with more tax dollars is not going to fix it.
well, then, I guess this Frank Key, from your previous post, was just full of hot air!

Quote:
Last night I spoke with Frank Key, the scientist who owns the laboratory. He observed, "You have stumbled on to a fine way to make CS." He did state that the potency would diminish over time and suggested that one make a new batch every fortnight. Considering that costs you nothing it makes sense.

He said the secret was the low voltage and the fish pump. I thought it was due to more oxygen in the water. He stated it was because of the introduction of carbon dioxide, explaining in chemical terms which were over my head. The fish pump in 100% vital to the process.
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† #23
Old 12-21-2008, 02:33 PM
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Maybe he is just full of CO2? This is just such a small amount of CO2 that is available that I find it hard to believe that it is having an effect. But the bubbles flowing through and stirring up the water that makes sense.
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† #24
Old 12-22-2008, 03:24 AM
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Mad Scientest,

Speaking of Mr. Gore and global warming, we are dealing with record low temperatures and lots of snow and ice in the northwest right now...quite the opposite. My son-in-law did a search on ice age tonight and sent me this very interesting link. Enjoy.

Ice Age Now
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† #25
Old 12-22-2008, 09:15 AM
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Ah yes, Robert felix and ďNot by fire but by IceĒ I have heard of him. He makes a good case for a coming ice age.
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