Baking soda daily...ok or bad?

[Mad Scientest]

I can't speak to the specific cases you mention, but generally speaking about vaccines, yes they do. A huge decrease in the incidence of the diseases in people who are vaccinated.

Really? Why then in a survey I recently read does it show that the US has highest infant mortality rate along with the highest immunization rate? By contrast the countries with the lowest infant martially are also the countries that require the least immunization.

This sure looks like a cause and effect to me.

 

[bill5]

Really? Why then in a survey I recently read does it show that the US has highest infant mortality rate along with the highest immunization rate? By contrast the countries with the lowest infant martially are also the countries that require the least immunization.

This sure looks like a cause and effect to me.

Where did you read this?

 

[cyber-junkie]

I can't speak to the specific cases you mention, but generally speaking about vaccines, yes they do. A huge decrease in the incidence of the diseases in people who are vaccinated. As I have said elsewhere, there are a great many diseases which have been effectively eradicated or greatly reduced in places where vaccines have been used. This is not small part of death rates plummeting in the last 100 or so years and life expectancies rising. It amazes me that that actually needs to be said as it's common knowledge that we were taught around 5th grade. Or do you think the people who write all the academic textbooks are in on some grand conspiracy as well?

Bill, yes some seem to have helped but how about the huge increase autism over the past 20 years? And child hood cancers, I am in my 50's and when I was a child their wasn't even one in all the schools I attended that was autistic...and they were not small schools, something is causing this?

Things that cure or help something often screw up something else, especially perscrip. drugs, yes penicillin can be a life saver but it's way over prescribed by the MD's and like my father's blood pressure medicine, his BP was just a little high so on the meds he went and 7 years later now he has liver disease so it's meds for that....that to me is insane and it's stuff like that why myself and many more are here.

There was one student I know of the got small pox after the vaccine and died from small pox, I didn't get many of these vaccines including small pox, never get the flu shot which is recommended by traditionalists and most I know get the flu shot and get a case or two every year, I haven't had a case of flu in over 20 years...maybe I am just lucky?

 

[Kelly Thundercloud]

That may be. You can have too much or not enough of anything. In fact I have heard some concern about that because bacteria/etc are very "smart" about being able to mutate such that some anti-biotics have become less effective against some of them. Certainly they're no panacea, but what is?

Exactly! A dear friend of mine has been going through so many stubborn infections all because he has been on antibiotics for months. The bacteria can mutate quickly and they are becoming resistant to almost everything.

It sounds like you're trying to take a balanced and objective approach and don't believe/disbelieve in something just because it's "conventional" or "natural" and you realize this isn't some bizarre contest between the 2, but rather look at each thing on its own merit. Very logical and frankly very refreshing.

That's basically it. I've kind of taken my own route. I have learned a lot about conventional meds in college and I've researched alternatives since then. Neither seem to please me, so that's why I've grown my own set of beliefs. That is also what I've done with religious beliefs. I went from one to the other to not really believing at all and I found that just taking my own route is better than following what somebody else came up with.

That doesn't seem to matter to some. Natural = good! Sadly, it's not that simple.

Oh could you ever get me ranting on this LOL. I tried to go along with the "natural", "environmentalist" movement too, but sadly, they are the same way. Do you know that the recycling process actually puts more pollution out than the original process of making paper or plastic? So this leads to the question: which is better? Waste or pollution? They all try to act like their "eco friendly" products are all that! Yeah right! They mess up the earth just as bad (if not worse) than people who don't give a crap at all!

You can't simply look at a label and believe it's good. More often than not, products will have these labels just so they can sell. Kimberly-Clark made the "eco friendly", waste reducing paper towels for public restrooms. Well, all they did was make the paper "super absorbant"! Who is going to dry their hands and know that it's super absorbant? They're still gonna rip off as much as they can! Yeah, real good way to reduce waste...HA! More like make money. (It probably costs more, but people buy it because it's "environmentally friendly"!)

 

[Mad Scientest]

Where did you read this?

I don’t recall. I get information from many sources, but it was a recent survey.

I agree with cyber-junkie some vaccines may actually work but for the most part they are best avoided.

Did the polio vaccine actually end the epidemic or, as some believe, was winding down naturally?

How about the swine flu? Oh yes be afraid be very very afraid, rush out and get a shot maybe two shots. Yet it turned out to be a big dud, but not for the drug companies they made millions from it. And the fact that more people were make sick from the vaccine then actually died from the flu, well we don’t talk about that.

What about Gardasil this lovely vaccine to prevent sexually transmitted diseases? That was forced on to six years old school girls. The side effects harming and killing many of them. A vaccine that even if it did what it was supposed to do was only effective against 4% of all sexually diseases.

Then there was some of the anthrax vaccine that was given to our troops before the Gulf war that contained the preservative squalene. This caused those troops to come down with “Golf war syndrome”. The government of course claimed it was wartime stress and that they never used squalene in the vaccine. Unfortunately for the government this was proven to be a lie.

For those of use who have actually looked into vaccines this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Finial how about this from Bill Gates, we all know who he is right, he has announced that his foundation is going to give $10 billion dollars over the next decade to develop and deliver new vaccines to children in the developing world. My! Doesn’t that sound nice he is such a humanitarian, he loves the children.

Of course we need to put that in context with this other quote from him, “Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we (can) lower (world population) that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.” (my emphasis).
OK everyone just step right up and get your Cool-aid over here.:shock:

 

[Arrowwind09]

Now I don't like Gill Gates much but I got to speak up here.. it is proven statistically that families who's children survive will have smaller families. If families are not economically burdened by disease, they will produce less and higher quality and can economically pick themselves up and survive better over all at a lower population level. He is not doing this to knock kids off with a vaccine... he just believes this is the way to make stronger families... which I disagree... especially for what is going on in Africa and all the crap vaccines they send there.

Eventually is all washes out like Italy, that has no population growth... in Africa currently they have a -1% growth rate over all due to disease, mostly malaria and HIV.

The planned depopulation of the continent for its natural resourses is underway by the distrabution of tainted vaccine over the years and by the inability to cure Malaria. The W.H.O. has been adviced of the one day cure for malaria with MMS but they refuse to acknowledge it.


I highly recommend viewing the DVDS by Professor Jarred Diamond, "Guns,Germs and Steel" they are available from Netflex.

The maze is ever so convoluted and thick.

 

[Mad Scientest]

It can be shown that when health and education of a country improve their birth rate declines thus for those truly concerned about the population of the world this would be the logical route to take.

But those eugenicists that view 80% of the population as nothing more then “useless eaters” they prefer to use other population reduction means. Such as contaminated drugs, vaccines, man-made pandemics, and wars, etc.

So is Bill Gates part of this eugenicist movement or just a dupe that is being used by them? In either case I believe that the expanded use of vaccines is the wrong way to go.

Remember DDT? It worked really great at killing mosquitoes that carried malaria and only a small amount was actually needed. Yet in large amounts it was “reportedly” shown to damage the eggs of some birds and we certainly don’t want to harm some bird’s eggs. So it was banned thus condemning millions in Africa to death from malaria. Was that really just a coincidental side effect? :evil:

And of course we mustn't use MMS because it has not been proven in clinical trials.

 

[bill5]

Bill, yes some seem to have helped but how about the huge increase autism over the past 20 years?

I have heard about a much ballyhooed link to vaccines and don't discount the possibility, but haven't seen anything even close to conclusive as yet. Regardless, my point wasn't that vaccines are perfect or a cure-all, just one of countless examples of how modern medicine has benefitted us.

Things that cure or help something often screw up something else, especially perscrip. drugs, yes penicillin can be a life saver but it's way over prescribed by the MD's

Yes you may be correct on both counts - again I'm not saying "conventional" medicines are perfect and to say doctors aren't either is a severe understatement. I've encountered at least one who I do not exaggerate when I say eh should be in jail. That doesn't mean all/most doctors are bad or modern medicine is evil or whatever other silliness a few extremists try to contend.

PS I hate the flu shot too.

 

[Mad Scientest]

Where did you read this?

Found it while looking for something else.

https://www.infowars.com/new-study-finds-direct-link-between-vaccines-and-infant-mortality/

 

[bill5]

I don’t recall. I get information from many sources, but it was a recent survey.

Then it's just a claim which frankly makes little sense, given the long track record of immunizations, so why would anyone believe it?

I agree with cyber-junkie some vaccines may actually work but for the most part they are best avoided.

Because...

Did the polio vaccine actually end the epidemic or, as some believe, was winding down naturally?

? Diseases don't "tend to wind down naturally." Something happens to wind it down. In the case of polio, I doubt the widespread use of the vaccine and the plummeting cases of it were a coincedence.

How about the swine flu? Oh yes be afraid be very very afraid, rush out and get a shot maybe two shots. Yet it turned out to be a big dud, but not for the drug companies they made millions from it. And the fact that more people were make sick from the vaccine then actually died from the flu, well we don’t talk about that.

I admit I'm not up on all the hoopla about the swine flu, but even if true, not getting what comparing how many were "made sick" vs those who died means-? If you had some evidence that more died after getting the vaccine than those who didn't, now that would be an excellent argument against it.

What about Gardasil this lovely vaccine to prevent sexually transmitted diseases? That was forced on to six years old school girls. The side effects harming and killing many of them. A vaccine that even if it did what it was supposed to do was only effective against 4% of all sexually diseases.

Have a link?

Then there was some of the anthrax vaccine that was given to our troops before the Gulf war that contained the preservative squalene. This caused those troops to come down with “Golf war syndrome”. The government of course claimed it was wartime stress and that they never used squalene in the vaccine. Unfortunately for the government this was proven to be a lie.

No, it wasn't. There are numerous sources and links here FYI:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene#Use_as_an_adjuvant_in_vaccines

Finial how about this from Bill Gates, we all know who he is right, he has announced that his foundation is going to give $10 billion dollars over the next decade to develop and deliver new vaccines to children in the developing world. My! Doesn’t that sound nice he is such a humanitarian, he loves the children

You're right - no way could he just be doing something humanitarian! I bet there's suddenly some huge market to sell Windows 7 to children in third-world countries he's exploiting! Besides we all know those vaccines are part of another big gov't plot to take over the world!

:roll: Come on. I'm not his biggest fan, but you are aware he's given away billions for a number of years to a variety of causes right? Could it be he's just trying to help people?

Of course we need to put that in context with this other quote from him, “Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we (can) lower (world population) that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent.” (my emphasis).

You must have missed the "reproductive health services" part of that. It has nothing to do with vaccines. In a lot of these countries, child mortality is so high that families are hard-core into having as many kids as possible since they know there's a good chance many will die (and keeping the family line going is really important). If we can drastically reduce that and get them to see that, we can curb this sharply, and willingly, by those doing it.

 

[Mad Scientest]

All of the points I have made have been documented and are proven but feel free to except it or reject it. I have acquired my knowledge over a long period of time and from many different sources, so forgive me if I cannot immediately recall and list all of them. Of course if you are only looking for conformation from the lame stream media that gives only the politically correct version you’re probably not going to find it. .

However I would suggest if you are brave enough, take off your blinders, remove the rose colored glasses look up and look at what is really going on around you in the real world. It is not what you have been told to believe. If you rely on only the MSM you definitely will not get the full story, you must search out the truth from many different sources and then put the pieces it together to get the real picture. Yes it can be scary; it can even be down right frightening. As you will find that there are some truly evil people in this world and they have absolutely no regard for you health, safety and wellbeing in fact they actually have outright contempt for you and want to remove you from “their” planet. Plus they are not above using any and all means to achieve this goal.

And contrary to what we have been lead to believe only a very few of them have beards, wear a turbans and live in caves. Actually these are the least dangerous ones because they come straight out and say they want to cut off your head. But the ones poisoning our land, water, air and food etc. are not quite so forth coming, they may even claim what they are doing is for are own good. Some may even believe what they’re saying, but whatever they’re reasons whether doing it deliberately or for greed, or simple stupidly the results for us are the same.

So do you want to continue to believe in the propaganda that you have feed all you life or are you willing to break out of that very comfortable shell that has been created for you and look at the world as it really is?

It’s your choice do you want the red pill or the blue pill?

 

[bill5]

All of the points I have made have been documented and are proven

You mean like the one above where you went "in a survey I recently read does it show that the US has highest infant mortality rate along with the highest immunization rate" and when I asked "Where did you read this?" you went "I don’t recall." :roll:

You repeatedly fail to back up your claims or points and when I ask you to, you just tap dance and produce nothing. I'm not saying everything you state is wrong pe se, but while I know there are some here who will naively believe things people say here without getting them to back it up, sorry, I'm not one of them...esp when it comes to something which at least on the surface makes no sense, like the example above.

feel free to except it or reject it.

I'm happy to accept or at least seriously consider anything you can back up.

I have acquired my knowledge over a long period of time and from many different sources, so forgive me if I cannot immediately recall and list all of them.

"All?" Just one would be a vast improvement.

Of course if you are only looking for conformation from the lame stream media that gives only the politically correct version you’re probably not going to find it.

Thanks. I don't. PS: is this the same media which at various times has popularized some of the alternative methods some of you love so much, even though they are unproven to have any use (eg laetrile for cancer)?

Generally, you're right, they are certainly not perfect, and it would not be wise for anyone to use them as a sole source of information. But lumping all media into the same group (eg lumping legit newspapers in with the National Enquirer) is a massive and unfair oversimplification, and the more respectable such sources do tend to have a good track record. They have to, because if they report something later proven wrong, the others will be all over them. FYI reporters don't just sit around and make stuff up; they have to investigate it, have reliable sources themselves, etc etc. Again it doesn't mean they're perfect to say the least, but to dismiss them with a wave of the hand entirely isn't fair either.

However I would suggest if you are brave enough, take off your blinders, remove the rose colored glasses look up and look at what is really going on around you in the real world.

:roll: I do and have. Like several others here, you would be wise to tak your own advice vs believing in things which are unproven and going on about "conspiracies" which also don't hold up to scrutiny.

you must search out the truth from many different sources

I do that too. You?

there are some truly evil people in this world and they have absolutely no regard for you health, safety and wellbeing in fact they actually have outright contempt for you and want to remove you from “their” planet. Plus they are not above using any and all means to achieve this goal.

Extremely few people in this world have some nazi-like desire to eradicate people (and if they do there's a specific agenda, eg muslim extremists); to assume otherwise frankly sounds pretty melodramatic. But a great many do want to make a profit. And yeah that includes "big pharm" (they are a business after all), but keep in mind it also includes all the snake oil salesmen out there selling products with all kinds of wild claims which they can't back up. That's the difference. Pharmacies can't just make up some substance and start selling it FYI. It must go through rigorous testing, they must provide considerable evidence of what it has and has not been proven to do, and so on.

Not so with many "alternative" or "natural" products and those who sell them. Gee maybe that's why they either move to other countries or put all kinds of disclaimers about how their products aren't really proven to do many of the things they claim, etc.

It’s your choice do you want the red pill or the blue pill?

And again, I suggest you consider your own words. You may find that some of these products some of you are into don't hold up to the light of day.

That said, some may have real promise. I certainly hope so; in fact, that is why I came here, hoping to find additional info on such things I haven't already found. Sadly, most of what I have found so far has been childish hissies, hypersensitivity, people believing in things with wild claims which aren't backed up, and a severe lack of ability to disuss such things rationally. Happily, there are at least a few such people here who aren't like that, so I remain hopeful.

 

[Mad Scientest]

You mean like the one above where you went "in a survey I recently read does it show that the US has highest infant mortality rate along with the highest immunization rate" and when I asked "Where did you read this?" you went "I don’t recall." :roll:

You repeatedly fail to back up your claims or points and when I ask you to, you just tap dance and produce nothing.
Really I see you missed my post #34.


Pharmacies can't just make up some substance and start selling it FYI. It must go through rigorous testing, they must provide considerable evidence of what it has and has not been proven to do, and so on.
Of course and we saw that with the flu vaccine they did at least two maybe four weeks of through rigorous testing.


Extremely few people in this world have some nazi-like desire to eradicate people (and if they do there's a specific agenda, eg muslim extremists); to assume otherwise frankly sounds pretty melodramatic.
.

[FONT=&quot]Few yes, but many more then you would like to imagine. You want documentation OK here are a few quotes about what some of these elite(?) individuals [/FONT]think [FONT=&quot]about the general public.[/FONT]

The reform is not new. It started in the early 1900s when John D. Rockefeller, Jr.’s Director of Charity for the Rockefeller Foundation, Frederick T. Gates, set up the Southern Education Board. In 1913 the organization was incorporated into the General Education Board. These boards set in motion “the deliberate dumbing down of America”. In Frederick T. Gates’ “The Country School of Tomorrow” Occasional Papers No. 1 (General Education Board, New York, 1913) was a section entitled “A Vision of the Remedy” in which he wrote:
“Is there aught a remedy for this neglect of rural life? Let us, at least, yield ourselves to the gratifications of a beautiful dream that there is. In our dream, we have limitless resources, and the people(slaves) yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hand. The present educational conventions fade from our minds; and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or of science. We are not to raise up from among them authors, orators, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians. Nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from among them lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we now have ample supply.” (emphases mine)

[FONT=&quot]Or how about these words of David Rockefeller: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.” [/FONT]

And what about these gems from the esteemed Henry Kissinger?

The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.

NAFTA represents the single most creative step towards a New World Order.

Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government.

[FONT=&quot]Why are groups like the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergers etc. groups whose members are obviously powerful with connections to wealth and political influence – never seem to be the subject of the in depth scrutiny by the evening news? Naturally the fact that their members are in control of these “independent” news sources would not have any effect. Would it? They wouldn’t be telling only their version of the truth to the general public would they? Why that wouldn’t be ethical. And as these few quotes show they have only the highly ethical standards. [/FONT]

 

[Arrowwind09]

If one wants to know the mortality rate of infants and how the US compares all they have to do is look at the world health organization statistics.

They also reveal other health issues for our country. We rate #1 in nothing.
and last time I looked we were number 17 for infant mortality amongst other nations... maybe about 8 or 10 years ago... We have only slightly improved on a national scale since.. but I bet other countries have improved also.

I refuse to give you reference bill5. Do your own dam research as we have been doing here for years... and don't bother with any remarks to me as I have you on ignore and I am not reading your post... so if you make remarks they will not truly be for me but for youself...for as far as I am concerned you are talking to yourself... I only know what you say if someone quotes you and if there were a way for me to eliminate that I would as I do not have the desire to coddle you as some of the others here are doing, or be patient with you, or educate you, or debate you or even listen to you.


Oh by the way moderators, I have received 2 pm messages stating that people are avoiding posting on this forum because of bill5. Just thought you should know.

If it is two that bothered to confide in me I wonder how many others there are?

 

[Cookie]

My my my Mad Scientest, what lovely green writing you have!

You mean like the one above where you went "in a survey I recently read does it show that the US has highest infant mortality rate along with the highest immunization rate" and when I asked "Where did you read this?" you went "I don’t recall." :roll:

You know what? I remember him reading that.. because I read it too.
The study is titled, "Infant mortality rates regressed against number of vaccine doses routinely given: Is there a biochemical or synergistic toxicity?"
Gary Goldman & Neil Miller conducted the study which was indexed in the National Library of Medicine.

There's an interesting chart here:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/54772978/Infant-Mortality-Rates-Regress-w-Higher-No-of-Vaccine-Doses