Eating Meat and Dairy is Wrong !

[revzen]

On Thursday I watched a dude, Gary Yourofsky, give a powerful presentation about why we should not eat meat or consume any dairy products; and I became a vegan after being a vegetarian for 6 yrs.

I am 6ft 1inch and weigh 226 lbs - 16 stones, and I was shocked, sickened and ashamed by our treatment of our extended family. If you eat meat or consume dairy then you are financing murder and cruelty on a daily basis.

Please watch the two following videos. If you don't become a vegan after watching Gary then you have lost your soul connection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkC4OJEx3c

Namaste,

rev

 

[Mad Scientest]

Gary Yourofsky, give a powerful presentation about why we should not eat meat or consume any dairy products;

[FONT=&quot]That is nothing; you need to watch this video to see how humanly our animals are treated. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]https://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/without_saying_a_word_this_6_minute_short_film_will_make_you_speechless/#.Ugx5pfDT5KC.facebook[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Could there be better ways to do this? I would like to think so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]However there is one [/FONT][FONT=&quot]simple but brutal fact that most people prefer to overlook.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no life on this plant that can exist without first taking the life of something else. But the manner in which this is done that determines the maturity of that individual, be it human, animal, bug, or plant.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Why does life have to be this way? Well a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t our current state of evolution that is just simply the way it works, however it appears we maybe nearing a point where that will change.[/FONT]

 

[Donee]

Paleo

Lots of luck with that!

Sometimes I wonder how the human race has survived as long as it has.

And over here in the U.S. noblama is hell bent in our destruction LOL.
Perhaps adaption of 'eating meat and dairy is wrong' would assist in
his quest.

Study of the paleo diet thesis could be, perhaps, illuminating.

 

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Indeed the paleo style diet relies on naturally PASTURED MEAT/DAIRY/EGG PRODUCTION not grain fed meat/dairy/poultry/fish production. If Humans are to reduce their vulnerability to chronic low level acidosis/inflammation driven illnesses we need to improve their omega 3 status and reduce our pro inflammatory omega 6 intake.

If life is going to survive on planet Earth we also have to learn how to Feed the Planet Without Destroying It
Our topsoil is our most valuable resource.

There are systems that enable topsoil to grow rather than continue to be depleted.
How Joel Salatin creates self-generating, profitable enterprises
Joel Salatin not only builds soil and locks up carbon, he makes money out of farming and so do his associates. Here's an analysis of Polyface's organisational structure and the Salatin magic.

I think there are ways of reducing our reliance on corn, wheat and soy that is currently unhealthy for humans and animals. But that requires a change to a Perennial Plants and Ecosystem-Based Agriculture however that still requires livestock grazing during certain times of the year.

[url=https://www.savoryinstitute.com/holistic-management/]Holistic Management


Allan Savory: How to fight desertification and reverse climate change

 

[Solstice Goat]

I am 6ft 1inch and weigh 226 lbs - 16 stones,
rev

What is the significant about that stat regarding this topic?

 

[revzen]

What is the significant about that stat regarding this topic?

you know SG, you got me their! I may have been thinking about a previous or future post! anyway my friend, forgive me for such a travesty!

in all seriousness I had either posted or was about to post something about my problem of sweating too much!

people are strange SG, and I am!

Namaste,

rev

 

[knightofalbion]

On Thursday I watched a dude, Gary Yourofsky, give a powerful presentation about why we should not eat meat or consume any dairy products; and I became a vegan after being a vegetarian for 6 yrs.

I am 6ft 1inch and weigh 226 lbs - 16 stones, and I was shocked, sickened and ashamed by our treatment of our extended family. If you eat meat or consume dairy then you are financing murder and cruelty on a daily basis.

Please watch the two following videos. If you don't become a vegan after watching Gary then you have lost your soul connection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIkC4OJEx3c

Namaste,

rev

Respect to you, dear Rev.

Reminds me of the vegan saying:
'The best thing about being a vegan? Being able to look a cow in the eye and not feel ashamed.'

 

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Being able to look a cow in the eye and not feel ashamed.'

But if everyone were vegan there would be no cows in kept at all.
Not only that eliminate cows and your prevent soil regeneration and so deplete topsoil.
'Cows Save The Planet': Soil's Secrets For Saving The Earth

 

[Solstice Goat]

you know SG, you got me their! I may have been thinking about a previous or future post! anyway my friend, forgive me for such a travesty!

in all seriousness I had either posted or was about to post something about my problem of sweating too much!

people are strange SG, and I am!

Namaste,

rev

No worries; my slow typing speed is the only thing that keeps me from, as Frank Zappa would say, "........and carried on without a comma.........." :lol:

 

[jfh]

as Frank Zappa would say, "........

That reminds me of the good old days. My hippie days. Not a worry in the world during short periods of that era. I met Frank Zappa and saw his Mothers of Invention perform in Atlanta. Long, long ago.

I don't think eating meat is wrong. Animal husbandry has be part of human history from time immemorial. I'd rather think that drinking milk, other than mother's milk, is disgusting. But cheese is my weakness. I don't know how I'd live without it.

 

[knightofalbion]

But if everyone were vegan there would be no cows in kept at all.
Not only that eliminate cows and your prevent soil regeneration and so deplete topsoil.
'Cows Save The Planet': Soil's Secrets For Saving The Earth

Cows or rather the artificial practice of breeding them in vast numbers is responsible for a sizeable proportion of greenhouse gas emissions; responsible for a ludicrous waste of water and other dwlindling natural resources; one of the main causes of waterway pollution; one of the main causes of topsoil erosion - due to overgrazing; the driving force in deforestation (i.e.for grazing land and for growing animal feed) and uses up a huge amount of arable food production that could otherwise be used for human consumption.

'Nearly 60% of the world's agricultural land is used for beef production, yet beef accounts for less than 2% of the calories that are consumed throughout the world.'

The Livestock Industry is wholly unsustainable even at the present level. Global population is set to increase by 40% to around 10 billion by 2050.

 

[knightofalbion]

I don't think eating meat is wrong. Animal husbandry has be part of human history from time immemorial.

Yes, but some people used to eat human flesh at one time. They don't do it now.
Tradition doesn't make it right.

When you come to understand and accept the unity of all life and that animals have souls as we do, then meat-eating becomes untenable.

 

[greif]

Eat human, get rid of the problem directly

 

[Solstice Goat]

So, how many folks in the 'meat eating is wrong' camp own cats or dogs?

Furthermore, what sanctions should be levied on panthers, wolves and other such creatures?

That reminds me of the good old days. My hippie days. Not a worry in the world during short periods of that era. I met Frank Zappa and saw his Mothers of Invention perform in Atlanta. Long, long ago.

.

Zappa is on my list of favorite guitarists. :mrgreen:


I'll never forget Frank sitting next to John Denver in the Senate hearings on C-Span regarding labeling of music lyrics. Zappa leans forward to the mic and says, "This sounds like more fundamentalist frogwash."

 

[Ted_Hutchinson]

Graze and end climate change, biologist says

 

[Mad Scientest]

Graze and end climate change, biologist says

[FONT=&quot]Oh, Oh! We have to watch out for this guy as it looks like he is trying to use common sense.:lol:[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]So OK we are not to eat meat because that involves killing a living creature and they have feelings and can feel pain. That leaves us with plants. But experiments have shown that plants also can feel pain and even the thoughts of someone just planning to cut off a branch can cause a reaction. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But seeing as how we cannot nominally hear when a plant screams apparently that makes it OK to cut and kill them? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So if we should not eat any living thing then just what should we be eating?[/FONT]

 

[knightofalbion]

[FONT=&quot]Oh, Oh! We have to watch out for this guy as it looks like he is trying to use common sense.:lol:[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]So OK we are not to eat meat because that involves killing a living creature and they have feelings and can feel pain. That leaves us with plants. But experiments have shown that plants also can feel pain and even the thoughts of someone just planning to cut off a branch can cause a reaction. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]But seeing as how we cannot nominally hear when a plant screams apparently that makes it OK to cut and kill them? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So if we should not eat any living thing then just what should we be eating?[/FONT]

The old chesnut which is nothing more than an attempt to morally justify eating flesh. A sort of 'Vegetarians 'kill' carrots therefore I can kill cows with a clear conscience' argument.

Killing a cow and harvesting a carrot, not quite the same thing is it.

To feel pain a plant would need a central nervous system, which they haven't got.

To register pain a plant would need a brain/mind, which they haven't got.

And nothing happens in Evolution without good cause. What would be the point of plants having the capacity to feel pain? Can a carrot 'fight or flight'?

Pruning usually encourages a plant to flourish, rather than harming it.

 

[Solstice Goat]

So, how many folks in the 'meat eating is wrong' camp own cats or dogs?

Furthermore, what sanctions should be levied on panthers, wolves and other such creatures?

The question begs the answer.

Three people in this thread, whether they actually live vegan or not, have voiced it as the only 'sane' way to live.

So, step up and answer, maybe you'll win a prize!

 

[Mad Scientest]

[FONT=&quot]As far as I am concerned being a vegetarian is simply a matter of personal choice, you have to eat something.[/FONT]

To feel pain a plant would need a central nervous system, which they haven't got.

[FONT=&quot]:rose:How do you explain the experiments done with plants where the plants were wired up to a “lie detector” of sorts? Then when a person came into the room and said to the plant things like “My what a beautiful plant” and it produced a response on the detector. If someone else came in and yelled and cursed at the plant that produced a different response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Or if someone in a white coat came in and just stood next to the plant there was no response but if he started to hack and cut up a plant next to the one that “wired up” that also produced the responce on the detector. Latter if that same person returned and just stood in front of the plant that too produced a response but only if wearing the white coat. [/FONT]

 

[knightofalbion]

So, how many folks in the 'meat eating is wrong' camp own cats or dogs?

Furthermore, what sanctions should be levied on panthers, wolves and other such creatures?

Most vegans don't keep cats or dogs for this reason.

People who keep pets obviously have a liking for animals to begin with. Through the companionship of their pet 'like' turns to 'love'.
And through association with their pet they soon come to see that their pet demonstrates emotions - love,friendship, tenderness, loyalty, joy, sorrow, jealousy, fear, grief and pain - physical and mental etc.
If they are spiritually minded they'll soon come to learn that it has a soul too.
Eventually the penny will drop that their animal is a microcosm of the Animal Kingdom as a whole, and then everything changes and meat-eating becomes untenable and they become vegetarian or vegan.
What though - as you raised the point - would you have them do with their animal ? Tie it to a lamp post and abandon it?

Most of the red meat in commercial cat and dog food is the leftovers from slaughtering for human consumption.

Carnivorous animals, like cats and dogs, are slaves to their nature. We have a higher nature. Man was created to be 'the sanctuary of love and justice', the guardians of Creation, not to hurt and kill.

Where we have a choice - and we do have the choice - we should be mindful of what we are inflicting upon others (or getting others to do it in 'your' name because 'you' don't have the stomach to do it 'yourself') and shun the 'fruits' of violence, bloodshed and slaughter.

 

[knightofalbion]

[FONT=&quot]As far as I am concerned being a vegetarian is simply a matter of personal choice, you have to eat something.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]:rose:How do you explain the experiments done with plants where the plants were wired up to a “lie detector” of sorts? Then when a person came into the room and said to the plant things like “My what a beautiful plant” and it produced a response on the detector. If someone else came in and yelled and cursed at the plant that produced a different response.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Or if someone in a white coat came in and just stood next to the plant there was no response but if he started to hack and cut up a plant next to the one that “wired up” that also produced the responce on the detector. Latter if that same person returned and just stood in front of the plant that too produced a response but only if wearing the white coat. [/FONT]

Plants respond to physical and chemical stimuli, that is not indicative of intelligence, consciousness or sentience.
None of the great Masters, prophets or disincarnate spirit teachers have taught it.

Others have replicated Backster's experiment and not found the same results, debunking the theory. Backster himself tried every thing he could think of for nearly 14 minutes and didn't get any response at all, which seems strange if the theory had any substance to it. Leaving the room and then coming back in, then getting a response - which he put down to the plant 'mind reading'... could be down to an external influence. He had no control to make comparison with which undermines his results, wheter valid or bogus.

Just reading of another experiment. Three greenhouses. One playing soothing messages of love, one screaming vile abuse, the other silent.
Plant growth was better in the love and hate greenhouses than in the silent greenhouse, though 'love' and 'hate' plant growth was the same.

Draw from that what you will.

If one believe plants have minds etc., okay, but they should stand by their convictions and become fruitarian.

 

[Solstice Goat]

Most vegans don't keep cats or dogs for this reason.

People who keep pets obviously have a liking for animals to begin with. Through the companionship of their pet 'like' turns to 'love'.
And through association with their pet they soon come to see that their pet demonstrates emotions - love,friendship, tenderness, loyalty, joy, sorrow, jealousy, fear, grief and pain - physical and mental etc.
If they are spiritually minded they'll soon come to learn that it has a soul too.
Eventually the penny will drop that their animal is a microcosm of the Animal Kingdom as a whole, and then everything changes and meat-eating becomes untenable and they become vegetarian or vegan.
What though - as you raised the point - would you have them do with their animal ? Tie it to a lamp post and abandon it?

Most of the red meat in commercial cat and dog food is the leftovers from slaughtering for human consumption.

Carnivorous animals, like cats and dogs, are slaves to their nature. We have a higher nature. Man was created to be 'the sanctuary of love and justice', the guardians of Creation, not to hurt and kill.

Where we have a choice - and we do have the choice - we should be mindful of what we are inflicting upon others (or getting others to do it in 'your' name because 'you' don't have the stomach to do it 'yourself') and shun the 'fruits' of violence, bloodshed and slaughter.

Very thoughtful response, thank you.

 

[revzen]

Respect to you, dear Rev.

Reminds me of the vegan saying:
'The best thing about being a vegan? Being able to look a cow in the eye and not feel ashamed.'

Forgive my late response knightofalbion, I have only just read your post! Blessings to you my friend, I see you are in Glastonbury, a place I've never been to, sadly. Although I know folk from around there! Also a friend of mine has given several talks in Glastonbury - a certain Ian R Crane!

And now for a progress report on my first week as a vegan - WONDERFUL! Physically and mentally I have never felt better(even with my various health issues!!!). I have no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever!

I have also made my own rice milk - so easy it was a beautiful joyous occasion! Cutting out processed vegetarian products has also been a revelation - my heavy after meal stomach has disappeared totally!

If people continue to eat meat then they are disconnected from their soul - their is no excuse for eating meat(and all the chemicals therein). Not only are you consuming decaying flesh, you are absorbing the fear based emotions of the animal who has been slaughtered; so you are affected in more ways than you think!

Eating meat is a health hazard, look at some of the addictions on offer - one poster can't give up cheese! Another will bemoan he can't give up bacon! And so it goes on.......as do the excuses!!!

When I had my realisation of the Oneness of all that is my life changed completely, and my diet has joined me too! I look back and see the changes that have taken place - all positive!

No doubt the debate will continue! For me their is no debate - eating meat and consuming dairy is wrong, it is barbaric - it is murder.

Namaste,

rev

 

[revzen]

Just came across this 4min 44secs video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_dRTlUc7cw&feature=c4-overview&list=UU8r0FOh0PSfgriCkIK6EMMQ

Sobering.

Man(has lost the)kind is responsible for the suffering. We are all guilty.

No arguments. We are all guilty. Disconnected. Barbaric.

Namaste,

rev

 

[D Bergy]

I am fairly certain that about half of the group that has gone vegetarian or vegan
Has done so in an effort to improve their health.

The other half does it so they can have a false sense of superiority over the majority who eats as an omnivore.

Most health conscious people eat whatever they thrive on better or attempt to do so.

Animals should be treated humanely, but not as humans They exist for our use as pets, beasts of burdon, or food.

Dan