Florescent lighting

[just me]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I cant find where. I am satill trying to pinch pennies over here, and I keep reading that switching over to florescent lightening will save lots of money. Supposedly those new little ones that sort of look like a corkscrew to me, will last a super long time, and save bunches of money. But healthwise, are they better for you or worse for you? I dont want to go backwards here. Saving money is all well and good, but if it cost us our health, its not worth the effort... Thanks for any opinions. greatly appreciate all your help.

 

[morgan33]

As they contain small amounts of mercury they have to be carefully disposed of. Some states have made it illegal for them to be disposed of in ordinary garbage collections and they must be recycled.

Can you get them in full spectrum lighting? If not, try to avoid them. Some epileptics have problems with fluorescents as well due to the flickering of the light - it can precipitate seizures.

The best way of saving electricity is to turn off at the wall all appliances that remain on standby - TVs, sound systems etc. This will save 10% pa for a start. And go to bed earlier so that all the lights can be turned off! :lol:

 

[EarlyBird]

Corkscrew bulbs!

I bought oodles of them in equivalents of 40W, 60W and
100W, [over a dozen boxes of 3 each] and really like them,
except for the fact that there's a slight delay before they
come on. But I'm getting used to it.

I've replaced all but one lamp and am waiting patiently
for that old bulb to burn out. One reason I like them is
that they don't put out Heat like the old bulbs did, which
should make for less heat during the Summer A/C season,
thus saving even more money on A/C. 8)

I was lucky - Duke Power offered specials months ago,
thru my Hardware Store for $.99 per bulb. That's why I
bought so many at one time. DPower has made/had
the same deal in every part of N. KY now.

 

[just me]

Well, hmmm that might change a mind. The foster daughter is epileptic, so I woudnt want anything that would bring on seizures. I dont know if i can get full spectrum lighting, but I am going to check it out. I tried walking around at nite without lights on, but when you have an old hard of hearing black lab living with you, that tends to cause disasters!!! Thank God I have all this fat to cushion the falls!!!LOL It's a miracle that I havent broken anything yet. I have been able to slowly get my electric bill down below 300 dollars, but with summer coming, I need drastic measures. Already got rid of the dryer. I dont use the dish washer, and make sure everything is shut off before I go anywhere. Still looking for an attic fan, hopefully I can get the ex to install it. Now, I came across an interesting site yesterday...free air conditioning..... can I get opinions??? I'm thinking this would be a good investment. Do any of you have any knowledge of this stuff?

https://mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html

 

[Mad Scientest]

As with most everything else there are plus and minuses.

PLUSES:
For same amount of light they use about ¼ of the power of a regular lamp.
Cost is now down to being a realistic alternative. (1 - $2)
They come in whatever color you want. (Red, green, blue and also if you prefer various shades of white)
You can get a warm white, cool white, or a daylight.
The warm white has a definite reddish tint.
The cool white (the standard one and most readily available) is a whiter light but still a little on the red side, but is good for general lighting.
The daylight as it name implies is closer to natural light, best for reading and close work.
The flicker problem is greatly reduced because of the electronic “ballast” old style florescent used a transformer/magnetic ballast.

MINUSES:
They are an inside lamps and do not like the cold, if used outside they may not turn on in cold weather.
When first turned on they take a minute or two to warm up to full brightness.
They do not like to be turned on and off frequently; this will greatly reduce their life. They are best used in lamps that are turned on and left on for long periods of time. For a closet or bathroom the old incandescent is still the best.
Some of the compact fluorescents do not like to be used with the base pointing up, as in a ceiling fixture, the heat from the lamp raises and cooks the electronics in the base. Making an aluminum foil shade to go between the lamp and its base helps eliminate this problem plus it directs more of the light downward.
As Morgen stated all fluorescent do contain a tiny amount of mercury, and any amount of mercury is enough to drive some environmentalist absolutely nuts.

So bottom line is any lamp that you turn on and leave on for an extended amount of time is a good candidate for a fluorescent and any lamp that is turned on for only a few minutes at a time, stick with the old cheepie incandescent.

 

[Donee]

I pretty much agree with what "Mad Scientest" has said, but I can make
a small addition:

About 30 years ago I contracted to do some engineering development
work on a new electronic ballast system to replace the electro-magnetic
system then being used generally for the long flourescent tubes. 'seems
the government was mandating the change, but without specifics. I
inferred that they were quietly trying to get away from the 60 Hz
magnetic field that is pretty strong within 3 or 4 feet of the devices.

At that time we were using the ISM (13+ mHz) as the only frequency
that the FCC would allow to provide an electronic 'turn-on' ballast for
a gas filled bulb with the same general size and shape as the conventional
incandescent bulbs still in use today. I was able to supply a good
functional system with excellent efficiency, but was unable to solve
stringent requirements of harmonic radiation, so that effort was dropped
after a couple years or so.

In the devices that are being pushed today (little curly cues)
the frequencies are well above 60 Hz, but I don't know exactly what
has been allowed in terms of electro-magnetic interferrence. I have
observed, however, that a lot of radiation from all kinds of thing is now
allowed that would have been prohibited 30 years ago by the FCC.

Bottom line: There is now a lot of concern about 60 Hz magnetic
fields. The new devices reduce the 60 Hz problem, but what about
the frequencies that THEYemit? The incandescent bulbs are
very inefficient, but if the wiring to them is properly done they are
very safe from the electromagnetic radiation point of view.

I am passing on the current fad. I am starting to use more and more
LEDs for lighting. I'm betting on them as the best at this time.

 

[just me]

Ive been thinking about going back to the candles and the kerosene lamps... Seems like they were the safest bet. I dont turn on lights during the day normally, I have all my curtains open to let the sun in. So if the concept that they need to stay on a long time is valid, then it would almost be a waste for me.

Ok, so you genuises. check out that site I posted about the free air conditioning, and tell me if that would really work....



https://mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html

 

[morgan33]

Just be careful if you use candles - some people have found that candle use can totally eliminate an electricity bill - due to the house burning down accidentally :shock:

 

[just me]

Just be careful if you use candles - some people have found that candle use can totally eliminate an electricity bill - due to the house burning down accidentally

Yes I know, and I am very cautious with any type of fire.... my kids think Im paranoid!!! But, I am still considering using them more, and also using the kerosene lanterns.... Is there a way to tell which way is more expensive.... For awhile, I started using a flash light when I had to get up at night, but keep thinking that batteries would be more expensive in the long run and not sure how to dispose of them safely once they are dead... Supposedly they arent good for the environment either.... Early bedtime is beginning to sound like the best bet!!!! Just not tonite, Have to make a birthday cake for my granddaughter!!! good nite all hope you have a pleasant weekend!

 

[Mad Scientest]

Ok, so you genuises. check out that site I posted about the free air conditioning, and tell me if that would really work....
https://mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html

That’s a cool site. The techniques there would work, and I am sure there are people actually using them, however most people would probably be scared away by the up front cost, even though in the long run they could probably save money.

In the devices that are being pushed today (little curly cues)
the frequencies are well above 60 Hz,

I suspect that this would eliminate the problem that Some epileptics have.

But I don't know exactly what has been allowed in terms of electro-magnetic interference. I have observed, however, that a lot of radiation from all kinds of thing is now allowed that would have been prohibited 30 years ago by the FCC.

Here again I suspect the general consensus is that because “most” of this radiation is of such a low level that it can do not harm. We will just have to wait and see on that. Or we could turn our homes into giant Faraday cages.


I am passing on the current fad. I am starting to use more and more
LEDs for lighting. I'm betting on them as the best at this time.

LED’s are nice, but they are not as efficient as a fluorescent. Still I have about 250 of them scattered around the house all solar powered. While they do not produce blinding light they provide more then enough light to walk around in a room without worry about bumping into something and you can actually read under some of them. With all of them on total power draw is 1 amp at 12 volt.

 

[just me]

Mad Sci, yeah I thought the whole idea was actually pretty cool... Even living down here in Texas, it looks like I can do well with this set up..... As far as the price.... Last year my electric bill averaged probably 500 to 550 a month... At the end of the summer, I was hitting 600 dollar a month bills, and thats with having my a/c set on 74 degrees... Its not like its freezing in my house. I figure even if I sink two thousand dollars into that, it would pay for itself and give me a savings in less then a year.

A friend of mine also was telling me about this space age paint, that he painted his roof with, and basically cut his electric bill in half???? This is the site I glanced at today... I keep wondering how healthy can all this be tho??? More reading I suppose!!! Still muddleing thru the free a/c site!!!

https://www.hytechsales.com/housepaint.html

 

[Marcus]

Some epileptics have problems with fluorescents as well due to the flickering of the light - it can precipitate seizures.

I don't have epilepsy but one day while in the drug store I was standing under a flickering fluorescent light and it dropped me to the floor! As soon as they moved me away from it I was fine. As I started to approach the light it started to happen again.

 

[just me]

I don't have epilepsy but one day while in the drug store I was standing under a flickering fluorescent light and it dropped me to the floor! As soon as they moved me away from it I was fine. As I started to approach the light it started to happen again.

Arrowwind, that would scare me... I was reading an article yesterday about this lady who is allergic to the electromagnetic fields(??) Seems she had problems with cell phones, microwaves, all kinds of stuff, had to have her walls and windows coated with some special stuff... Can you imagine??? I just dont remember where I was reading it at. I wonder how many of us are sick because of all this new technology.

 

[Donee]

Just for reference:

Approximate efficiencies for a few light sources:

Incandescent 0.7 to 2.6%
Fluorescent 7 to 15%
LED 4 to 22%
Arc lamp 5 to 22%
Sodium gas 22%

However, a problem with LEDs is a somewhat picky
drive requirement. Driving from solar, which is not
a hard fixed voltage source, would greatly reduce
system efficiency. 12 VDC is also awkward. Other
forms are mature and will not improve, but LEDs
are still in development and improving both in terms
of efficiency and cost. Also, since LEDs run on DC
they do not create any electro-magnetic radiation--
a big pluss in my view

. . . wont even comment on
life and ruggedness.

Just have a look at those LEDs illuminating the tail
lights in new model cars :!:

 

[Mad Scientest]

I was hitting 600 dollar a month bills, and thats with having my a/c set on 74 degrees...
Can you tolerate 80 degrees? that would help.

A friend of mine also was telling me about this space age paint, that he painted his roof with, and basically cut his electric bill in half????
If true half is not half bad
https://www.hytechsales.com/housepaint.html

I found the insulating paint site quite interesting, from their description I have no doubt that it would work.
However the one thing I found missing it their reports is just how well does it work.
Would like to see how a wall painted with their paint compares to a similar wall with standard fiberglass insulation.

 

[Mad Scientest]

Just for reference:


However, a problem with LEDs is a somewhat picky
drive requirement. Driving from solar, which is not
a hard fixed voltage source, would greatly reduce
system efficiency.
Yep you would probably burn them out.

12 VDC is also awkward.
Not all that bad. I run mine in groups of three connected in series, then all the groups are connected in parallel. A simple voltage regulator then steps the 12 volt down to 9.6.

Other
forms are mature and will not improve, but LEDs
are still in development and improving both in terms
of efficiency and cost.
Been working with a guy who just bought a couple hundred brand new white LED’s for ten cents a piece!!! And I thought I got a good buy at 20 cents for surplus ones.:shock:

 

[just me]

Can you tolerate 80 degrees? that would help.

MadSci, if it were just me, yes I could handle going without the a/c, we did it for many years while my children were growing up... But, my foster daughter cannot handle the heat... Above 74 degrees she gets a bit drowsy, Above 76 degrees, and she falls asleep... above 80, she goes into seizures. She was put into that situation once, while she was at school, apparently their a/c broke and they didnt bother to call any parents... I dont know exactly how hot it got before she went into seizures, but the school swears it didnt get over 80.... So, I have to be very careful of that.... At this point, I think my best bet will be putting a window unit in one room, and keeping her in that room while we are home.... If I can just finish out this month without turning on the a/c, I will be happy!!!

The friend who told me about the paint, said he put it on his roof, and his bills went down from over 300 to around 170, so close to cutting the bill in half.... He is even willing to paint my roof for me, so cant beat that!

I also sent an email to the people with the free a/c information.... According to them, because of where I live, this system would not benefit me (I cant believe a sales person would say that) but did suggest that if I could find someone who would be able to drill (using an auger??) holes straight down then it would help.... here is what he wrote

For a climate like yours, we have come to mostly suggest the "vertical version" of the tubes, where the tubes are actually inside a whole bunch of very shallow wells (like water wells, but not nearly as deep). Depending on whether you could find someone who would make a bunch (maybe 30) such shallow boreholes (maybe 30 feet deep), and what they would charge you for that, you might be able to benefit from that version (which is slightly different in that it is filled with water instead of air). But even then, you would certainly still need to use your existing A/C to do the final cooling.
If you could find someone who would be willing to bore those holes for maybe $200, I might think it was worth considering. But they would probably try to get you to pay $1,000 or more, and then, absolutely no. I guess I am thinking a High school kid with one of those hand-turned auger-type post-hole diggers, because if any larger equipment was required, they would try to charge you way too much.

So, a little research on my part and see if I can find people willing and able to do this.... We shall see... Its refreshing to know, that there are still people out there honest enough to say my product wont work for you!!!!

 

[Mad Scientest]

I would not expect that someone could be that sensitive to heat. Although friend wife claims to be, still she has yet to actually pass out. :wink:

Here is another insulation thought. Windows are a source of great heat loss, or gain. So for my bedroom windows I have taped “bubble wrap” over them, this made for warmer rooms this winter. Of course it is a little hard to see out of them, but at night I don't care and light does come in during the day.

An honest salesman, now that is refreshing!! As far as holes in the ground go, do you have a well? If so you could take the well water run it through a radiator with a fan blowing on it for cooling. The now warmed water is dumped down the wellhead to be recooled. :idea: :?:

 

[EarlyBird]

A/C Not!

I'm with ya, just me. No A/C until absolutely necessary.
We've already hit low 80's once or twice, but not 2 days
in a row yet. However several consecutive days of high
70's have heated my place up in areas where I have no
window or ceiling fan. Consecutive days of 80's are due
in early May, according to weather reports.
My reason for not using the A/C is conservation of energy;
I'm trying to do My part.

However, Duke Energy also sent out letters asking
customers to sign up to allow Duke to decide When to
turn our Heating and A/C's on. I declined - smacks of
big-brotherism to me. I'm Not wasteful of energy and
only I will decide when to start my cooling or heating.

BTW, my corkscrew bulbs only take 1 or 2 seconds before
coming on - NOT minutes. One lamp in a dark hallway, is
on almost 24/7 and hasn't burned out yet - prob ever 3
months now. With the old type 40W I'd have had to replace
at least once, possibly twice by now.

 

[Iggy Dalrymple]

When I was a Farm Bureau insurance agent I dealt with some quirky wealthy clients.

One was a descendant of Andrew Carnegie's founding partner in the steel business. His huge home on a lake near Tallahassee was designed by Edward Durell Stone and looked like something from the "Great Gatsby". The home had 12 foot ceilings and had no air conditioning. I often saw this billionaire out plowing with his John Deere.

Another of my clients was the widow of Benjamin Moore (paint). Shortly after I left the business, she died and her plantation was bought by Ted Turner who married Jane Fonda there. I read that Turner's home in Atlanta had no air conditioning.

 

[scorpiotiger]

Other
forms are mature and will not improve, but LEDs
are still in development and improving both in terms
of efficiency and cost.

Been working with a guy who just bought a couple hundred brand new white LED’s for ten cents a piece!!! And I thought I got a good buy at 20 cents for surplus ones.:shock:

what is a good place to buy LEDs? I would like to go with LEDs, but they are expensive (at least the ones I've seen).

man, I would replace all my lights if I could find them for 20 cents apiece!!

 

[Mad Scientest]

what is a good place to buy LEDs? I would like to go with LEDs, but they are expensive (at least the ones I've seen).

man, I would replace all my lights if I could find them for 20 cents apiece!!

The place were I got my LED’s, it is a surplus house, and that was three years ago so I doubt that they have any left. However you could try this place.

https://beta.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/340/LEDs/1.html

Here is another site to check out for things that go blink in the night.
https://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm

Been working with a guy who just bought a couple hundred brand new white LED’s for ten cents a piece!!! And I thought I got a good buy at 20 cents for surplus ones.:shock:

Don’t know the company he got them from other then that it was in China, he reluctantly ordered them by email and was quite surprised when he got parts within 4-5 days!

However if you go with the 20 cent LED’s you will have to make your own fixtures.
These are some of mine.

This is not LED’s but it is really cool stuff a thin wire that lights up. You can bend it into all sorts of shapes.
https://www.elbestbuy.com/

 

[scorpiotiger]

oh.. those pictures are cool! You made those? I'm impressed! :thumbsup:

well, if you have to make the fixtures these lights work on.. that leaves me out. I don't know how to do that.

It's funny.. I was just thinking the other day that I should take an electronics course just to make some simple repairs in my house.. but I'm afraid I would end up like this woman:

the effects of too much electricity on the human bod

On one of those links you posted, I was looking at one of the colored lights. they are now using blue and red light for acne. and light for collagen production. I think I will post about this on another topic.

but.. basically, I was looking for LEDs to replace my household light bulbs. take out the old and put in the LED. but those are around $40 a bulb. :shock: but they are supposed to last 10 years.

like this, but something equivalent to more than a 15 watt light bulb:
https://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100396466

 

[scorpiotiger]

from MadScientist's colored thin wire that lights up link.. (https://www.elbestbuy.com/) too cool!!:

click on the picture:

 

[Liegeman]

I made the switch about 1 1/2 yrs ago, I think it will be 2 years in October. The lights seem to start out very bright, but then they get dimmer just in a few weeks. The light, for me, is still hard to get used to. It doesn't seem near as bright as my traditional white light bulbs, but I have noticed a drop in my energy bill. Plus it sucks that you can't use them in dimmer lamps. I think my first bill went down about $20, but I replaced 12 of them.