Harry's post on the use of Apatone, and MsKathy's use of IV Vit C with her friend, prompted me to look further into that form of treatment. I want to be better informed and am considering the possibility of using it for husband, at home.
I came across this https://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
Robert F Cathcart, MD
I have avoided the treatment of cancer patients for legal reasons; however, I have given nutritional consults to a number of cancer patients and have observed an increased bowel tolerance to ascorbic acid. Were I treating cancer patients, I would not limit their ascorbic acid ingestion to a set amount but would titrate them to bowel tolerance. Ewan Cameron's advice against giving cancer patients with widespread metastasis large amounts of ascorbate too rapidly at first should be heeded. He found that sometimes extensive necrosis or hemorrhage in the cancer could kill a patient with widespread metastasis if the vitamin was started too rapidly (16). Hopefully, in the future ascorbic acid will be among the initial treatments given cancer patients. The additional nutritional needs of cancer patients are not limited to ascorbic acid, but certainly the stress involved with having the disease depletes ascorbate levels in the body. Ascorbate should be used in cancer patients to avert disorders of ascorbate deficiency in various systems of the body including the immune system.
So I have to ask "What is a large amount of ascorbate" which should not be given too rapidly? How does one know when excessive necrosis or haemorrhage in the cancer is occurring?
So I have to ask "What is a large amount of ascorbate" which should not be given too rapidly? How does one know when excessive necrosis or haemorrhage in the cancer is occurring? [/LEFT]
There really is no way to know on a daily basis. I would take into considertion the kind of cancer you are treating, the size of the cancer, the location of the cancer. An MRI should be able to tell you if a major vessel is within the tumor.Of course if you can see the tumor that may or may not be helpful. I would think that for this to be a risk the tumor would have to be within the large vessels walls.
Most tumors have a lot of vessels that feed it. But these are subsidiary vessels developed in the tumor formation process itself. Any tumor that dies will have vessels closing off and dying with it.
Usually, only in fairly advanced cancers do you get a bleed out and death from the cancer eating into a major vessel. I have seen it in bowel cancer and cancer of the neck where the carotid artery deteriorates, but not from vitamin c, just the cancer itself.
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
Thanks Arrow. This would be for a prostate cancer, which is asymptomatic right now, but rising PSA.
There were secondaries in local pelvic and spine bone, but no sign of that at last MRI.
I just want to know what I am doing, when the time comes to do it.!
Oral dosing of Vitamin C will never cause necrosis or hemorrhage. He's speaking ONLY of IV C. That is why they started my friend with 15g and built up to 50g. I've read ONE story of 1 person who died after receiving 10g IV, because of that fast necrosis and overwhelming toxic shock.
makes sense MsKathy that there would be more risk with IV vit. c.
I've also heard controversy as to which is a more profitable application but I don't know enough about it to comment. We have used to bowel tolerance a number of times in my home when disease struck. My boys seem to get sick but don't stay sick long. They will not follow my advice about diet but will come a running when they feel bad, which of course worries me.
__________________ "The nurse should be cheerful, orderly, punctual, patient, full of faith, - receptive to Truth and Love" Mary Baker Eddy
Visit www.HealthSalon.org
That is the information I am looking for MsKathy. I might be thinking of IV C in the future, so I need that kind of information. So if 10.G is a risk, how does one find information on dosing of IV C? Though, as Arrow says, some cancers are more likely to produce haemorrhage than others. But necrosis needs to be factored in, too.
From reading Dr. Cathcart's article, it seems that oral C is fine for colds, flu, etc, but more serious illnesses may need more vigorous treatment, IV for example.
This is by no means meant to be a definitive answer but, in the study I cited, I believe they only used 5 grams of IV C (and 50 mg of K3). There didn't appear to be any significant side-effects.
__________________
You're officially invited to come visit my new blog: www.healthyfellow.com
I would say that he needs to take Vitamin C to bowel tolerance immediately and regularly. (we all should) Remember that bowel tolerance will change from day to day depending on the various stresses the body is dealing with. Also, remember to dose the Vitamin C frequently during the day. It's got a very short half-life.
Then if you need to go the IV route, he won't have any reaction to it. Although, the blood levels of C are much much higher when it's done by IV b/c it gets into the bloodstream before the gut can try to excrete it.
Keep reading. The information's out there! I'm still trying to find out if the oral dosing will be able to give my friend the cancer killing levels of the IV route.
I asked you in another forum about the ingredients and dosing of Apatone. Here you said it was 5g of C and 50mg of K. Can you please post where you found that?
I think you found it, in the original thread. But for the (potential) benefit of others:
Quote:
Materials and Methods: Seventeen patients with 2 successive rises in PSA after failure of standard local therapy were treated with (5,000 mg of VC and 50 mg of VK3 each day) for a period of 12 weeks. Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) levels, PSA velocity (PSAV) and PSA doubling times (PSADT) were calculated before and during treatment at 6 week intervals. Following the initial 12 week trial, 15 of 17 patients opted to continue treatment for an additional period ranging from 6 to 24 months. PSA values were followed for these patients.
Hmm. Liposomes. It seems like they're being employed more and more these days. Indena, a phyto-pharmaceutical giant based out of Italy, manufactures some (oral) phyto-medicinals that are liposome-based.
And, as you know, the Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C product is supposed to provide IV levels of C through oral-consumption (of a liposomal vitamin C product).
Calling liposomes "liquid crystals" is news to me. "Liquid lipids" would seem to make more sense. But, "liquid crystals" sounds cooler.
__________________
You're officially invited to come visit my new blog: www.healthyfellow.com
IV Vitamin C
Linear Mode
