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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n DHEA and cancer\r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n Anyone on this board using DHEA? The folks at Life Extension market this substance heavily, and if you buy into their thoughts, it seems to be a fountain of youth. I think, however, they are irresponsible in their push to have people use it. I feel it could possible stimulate beginning breast or prostate cancer we may unknowingly have. Here is an excerpt from an e-mail letter I just sent off to the LEF people: \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n I was concerned about Cherniske\'s caveat that men being treated with androgen ablation for prostate cancer should not use DHEA. I was wondering if he said the same thing in both articles I have read. https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/...er_dhea_01.htm \r\n \r\nLast year I discovered I had advanced PC and began a testosterone reduction therapy (Lupron). During that first course, my research led me to realize that testosterone reduction as a treatment is a primitive, dangerous, and cruel treatment. Testosterone per se is not the enemy. The offending hormones are DHT and estradiol. \r\n \r\nAfter my treatment wore off, I began using DHEA, hoping to establish a better level of testosterone. It is when T is low later in life that PC usually develops. T is protective. However, shortly after using DHEA, my PSA began to skyrocket all the way to 500. I was in bad shape, thinking that my ideas were wrong. I therefore began androgen ablation once more-' + '-which worked for about nine months, putting me in hell via all the nasty side-effects. \r\n \r\nThat is when I used an anti-fungal (ketoconazole) which dropped my PSA from 300 to 28 in short order. The current thinking is that ketoconazole works by inhibiting androgens at the adrenal level. But my total testosterone and DHT levels were already extremely low. Inhibiting adrenal androgens could not have possibly been responsible for such a decline in PSA. \r\n \r\nWhat I found is that ketoconazole seems to work by inhibiting DHEA. In some men DHEA converts rather strongly to estradiol which is the initiating factor in DNA damage. My experience is that using DHEA nearly killed me even when I was off the anti-androgen treatment. \r\n \r\nI realize that when you market DHEA, you advise those with hormone sensitive cancers not to use it. Cherniske, I believe, does not say that. He says to avoid it only when you are being treated for cancer. I relied too heavily on his thoughts. His writing seems to suggest that DHEA may even fight cancer. \r\n \r\nBeyond that, there are thousands of folks walking about with the beginning stages of prostate cancer and are not aware they have this disease. For them to use DHEA could be disastrous-' + '-possible even fatal in the long run, Therefore, despite all the good your organization does, I feel it is irresponsible to market DHEA without fully informing folks to either 1) be tested to make sure they do not already have cancer or, 2) to make absolutely sure they have their hormone levels monitored to make sure that when using DHEA they do not experience a rise in DHT or estradiol. Advice could also be given to use 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase inhibitors if one decides to use DHEA. \r\n \r\nSince DHEA can be coverted to either T (and therefore DHT) or to estradiol, it can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on which path it takes. But the path it takes is based on a crapshoot.\r\n | \r\n
\r\n \r\n �\r\n #2 �\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n | \r\n
\r\n <!-' + '- user info -' + '->\r\n | \r\n
\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n Thanks for sharing your experience regarding DHEA, Mike. My father, who has an enlarged prostate but not PC, has often considered taking DHEA. I\'ve consistently advised him to practice therapies (like meditation) that can improve the balance of DHEA-to-cortisol but not to take DHEA supplements. \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- sig -' + '->\r\n \n \nI hope that non-supplemental practices, like meditation, will provide benefit without the risk. BTW, my father has yet to try the meditation so I can\'t speak to any effect on his PSA. \n \nI hope you\'re doing better by the day. \r\n \r\n __________________ \r\n <!-' + '- / sig -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n You\'re officially invited to visit my natural health blog: www.healthyfellow.com\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n DHEA has been used amongst bodybuilders, supposedly as a legal hormone, to aid weightlifting ability, but many claim it\'s little good. \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \n \nAlthough I saw evidence which shocks me, of a 17 year old claiming to be given it, at somewhere called GNC, and even after advice from those who knew not to take it, still did, and complained of Headaches and a few other things. \n \nHe should have asked about it first, not bought then used, but nobody should have sold him it, as I\'m pretty certain it\'s not for under 21\'s. Said GNC employee should have been sacked. \n \nI\'ve heard people say it\'s used in men over 50, to reduce muscle wastage or some such thing, but like most things like that, (legal or otherwise), that are used by some in the weightlifting community, there almost certainly could be interaction with things like Testosterone levels, or Growth Hormone production / regulation in the Thyroid, or possibly interaction with other physical Hormone regulation, in the Organs / components of the Endocrine System. I.E. Pituitary, Adrenals, Hypothalamus, Thyroid etc etc. \n \nSo in view of this, the sensible advice is to know exactly what it is, before it\'s used, and if you have any physical issues, applicable to a verdict of non-use or abstinence, which means using respectable internet sites, (more than one), and consultation with a Doctor or more than one. \n \nIf you take something, that interferes with healthy Hormone regulation by the Endocrine system, you could run a risk of side effects or other issues, so it makes sense to be prepared, and don\'t necessarily believe the views, of certain medics touted on websites, as some may be considered kooks, or over zealous in diagnosing things etc etc.\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n Would the same cautions also apply the 7-Keto DHEA (also marketed by LEF)? \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\nMari\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n Mari, \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- edit note -' + '->\r\n \n \n7-keto DHEA supposedly does not affect sex hormone product. \n \n \r\n https://uimc.discoveryhospital.com/ma..._way_to_take_dQuote: \r\n
\n \nA recent study may support it\'s effect on boosting one\'s metabolic rate (slightly): \n \n \r\n https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum\r\n Quote: \r\n
\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / edit note -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n Last edited by Harry Hirsute; 05-23-2008 at 11:16 AM.\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- sig -' + '->\r\n \r\n Quote: \r\n
\r\nMy medical doctor really supports the use of DHEA and she has recommended it to both me and my husband. Neither of us have used it until I started just 6 weeks ago as part of a total hormonal replacement therapy. I have not formed an opinion yet but I did stay away from it in previous years due to so much mixed information on it. \r\n \r\nSince your psa went down after using ketoconazole do you think that there could be any possibility that there is a fungal component to the prostate cancer issue with you? \r\n\r\n \r\n __________________ \r\n <!-' + '- / sig -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n �God is the basis of life, life is the basis of energy, energy is the basis of matter.�... Carey Reams \r\n \nVisit: www.HealthSalon.org | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n Quote: \r\n
\nKetaconazole knocks out DHT, the antifungal properties are a different mechanism.\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n one should never mess with the hormonal system. If it is low you can deal with it, you get a saliva test to determine your levels. DHEA is not something to mess with although it does do some good but it should never be out there freely for advertisements of what it does and how great it works for your stamina, it can kill you!!!!!!! Your DHEA lowers at 60 and slowly- if you need to supplement it, you do it very slowly and you keep testing your levels. People give it a bad name because they use it without knowledge. They use it for youth, bad move for believing everything that is heard, research extensively first.\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n dhea and psa\r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n I bought Testrogain on the net. I took recommended dosage,two pills day. Each pill contains 50 mg of DHEA. That means i was taking 100 mg of DHEA per day for one year. My psa level, which was always normal shot up to 30. A dre exam indicated that my prostate was enlarged but probably not cancerous. I stopped taking the Testrogain and the psa has returned to normal, 4.3. I haven\'t had another dre since but going by my urine flow it seems to have shrunk. I wonder if the high psa reading was due to cancerous cells in the prostate or just a high reading due to the DHEA in my blood.\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n many people think things over the counter are safe, which reminds me of when a lot of friends at the gym were taking andro. \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \n \nI know many people who take DHEA and without a doubt it adds to performance. You normally have to take a lot even more than recommended, which results in acne even for the men in their 40\'s and 50\'s who I know who take it. The strength and size increase though is without a doubt noticeable. \n \nPersonally I don\'t think it\'s healthy, especially for those who take it when not needed and for muscle gains.\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n I\'ve always felt that saw palmetto was better than DHEA for prostate problems. I don\'t think it ever cured anything, but is excellent for maintenance and prevention. It contains betasitosterol (a strerol). Along with fatty acids each are 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors. The phytoestrogen content also benefits the prostate. \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- sig -' + '->\r\n \n \nPygeum is another important contributor to that area of the body. It contains terpenes such as ursolic, crataegolic and oleanic acids and ferulic acid compounds. Terpenes help reduce inflammatory prostaglandins and can inhibit cancer cells, making it better than DHEA in that respect. The ferulic acid compounds reduce cholesterol deposition in the prostate, regulate testosterone activity and reduce prolactin levels. \n \nSo there. Why bother with DHEA? Besides, DHEA can cause hair loss, certainly for me.\r\n \r\n __________________ \r\n <!-' + '- / sig -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n - \n- Jim \nLife is just one damned thing after another - Elbert Hubbard \n \n\r\n | \r\n
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\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n <!-' + '- icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / icon and title -' + '->\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n In my case nature beat the dhea to it.\r\n Quote: \r\n
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DHEA and cancer
Anyone on this board using DHEA? The folks at Life Extension market this substance heavily, and if you buy into their thoughts, it seems to be a fountain of youth. I think, however, they are irresponsible in their push to have people use it. I feel it could possible stimulate beginning breast or prostate cancer we may unknowingly have. Here is an excerpt from an e-mail letter I just sent off to the LEF people:
I was concerned about Cherniske's caveat that men being treated with androgen ablation for prostate cancer should not use DHEA. I was wondering if he said the same thing in both articles I have read. https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/...er_dhea_01.htm Last year I discovered I had advanced PC and began a testosterone reduction therapy (Lupron). During that first course, my research led me to realize that testosterone reduction as a treatment is a primitive, dangerous, and cruel treatment. Testosterone per se is not the enemy. The offending hormones are DHT and estradiol. After my treatment wore off, I began using DHEA, hoping to establish a better level of testosterone. It is when T is low later in life that PC usually develops. T is protective. However, shortly after using DHEA, my PSA began to skyrocket all the way to 500. I was in bad shape, thinking that my ideas were wrong. I therefore began androgen ablation once more--which worked for about nine months, putting me in hell via all the nasty side-effects. That is when I used an anti-fungal (ketoconazole) which dropped my PSA from 300 to 28 in short order. The current thinking is that ketoconazole works by inhibiting androgens at the adrenal level. But my total testosterone and DHT levels were already extremely low. Inhibiting adrenal androgens could not have possibly been responsible for such a decline in PSA. What I found is that ketoconazole seems to work by inhibiting DHEA. In some men DHEA converts rather strongly to estradiol which is the initiating factor in DNA damage. My experience is that using DHEA nearly killed me even when I was off the anti-androgen treatment. I realize that when you market DHEA, you advise those with hormone sensitive cancers not to use it. Cherniske, I believe, does not say that. He says to avoid it only when you are being treated for cancer. I relied too heavily on his thoughts. His writing seems to suggest that DHEA may even fight cancer. Beyond that, there are thousands of folks walking about with the beginning stages of prostate cancer and are not aware they have this disease. For them to use DHEA could be disastrous--possible even fatal in the long run, Therefore, despite all the good your organization does, I feel it is irresponsible to market DHEA without fully informing folks to either 1) be tested to make sure they do not already have cancer or, 2) to make absolutely sure they have their hormone levels monitored to make sure that when using DHEA they do not experience a rise in DHT or estradiol. Advice could also be given to use 5-alpha-reductase and aromatase inhibitors if one decides to use DHEA. Since DHEA can be coverted to either T (and therefore DHT) or to estradiol, it can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on which path it takes. But the path it takes is based on a crapshoot. |
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