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Old 05-13-2009, 11:12 AM
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Default Vitamins Found to Curb Exercise Benefits

If you exercise to improve your metabolism and prevent diabetes, you may want to avoid antioxidants like vitamins C and E.

That is the message of a surprising new look at the body’s reaction to exercise, reported on Monday by researchers in Germany and Boston.

Exercise is known to have many beneficial effects on health, including on the body’s sensitivity to insulin. “Get more exercise” is often among the first recommendations given by doctors to people at risk of diabetes.

But exercise makes the muscle cells metabolize glucose, by combining its carbon atoms with oxygen and extracting the energy that is released. In the process, some highly reactive oxygen molecules escape and make chemical attacks on anything in sight.

These reactive oxygen compounds are known to damage the body’s tissues. The amount of oxidative damage increases with age, and according to one theory of aging it is a major cause of the body’s decline.

The body has its own defense system for combating oxidative damage, but it does not always do enough. So antioxidants, which mop up the reactive oxygen compounds, may seem like a logical solution.

The researchers, led by Dr. Michael Ristow, a nutritionist at the University of Jena in Germany, tested this proposition by having young men exercise, giving half of them moderate doses of vitamins C and E and measuring sensitivity to insulin as well as indicators of the body’s natural defenses to oxidative damage.

The Jena team found that in the group taking the vitamins there was no improvement in insulin sensitivity and almost no activation of the body’s natural defense mechanism against oxidative damage.

The reason, they suggest, is that the reactive oxygen compounds, inevitable byproducts of exercise, are a natural trigger for both of these responses. The vitamins, by efficiently destroying the reactive oxygen, short-circuit the body’s natural response to exercise.

“If you exercise to promote health, you shouldn’t take large amounts of antioxidants,” Dr. Ristow said. A second message of the study, he said, “is that antioxidants in general cause certain effects that inhibit otherwise positive effects of exercise, dieting and other interventions.” The findings appear in this week’s issue of The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The effect of vitamins on exercise and glucose metabolism “is really quite significant,” said Dr. C. Ronald Kahn of the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston, a co-author of the report. “If people are trying to exercise, this is blocking the effects of insulin on the metabolic response.”

The advice does not apply to fruits and vegetables, Dr. Ristow said; even though they are high in antioxidants, the many other substances they contain presumably outweigh any negative effect.

Dr. Kahn said it might be that reactive oxygen is beneficial in small doses, because it touches off the body’s natural defense system, but harmful in higher doses.

Andrew Shao of the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade association of dietary supplement makers, said the new study was well designed but was just one bit of evidence in a complex issue. Most available evidence points to the opposite conclusion, that antioxidants benefit health by reducing oxidative stress, he said.

“I wouldn’t change recommendations for anyone based on one study,” he said. “This is one small piece of the puzzle.”

Source: NYTimes
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:14 AM
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That study goes against everything Gary Null states about free radical damage and antioxidants.

He says to take plenty of antioxidants about 20 minutes after exercise. Considering he is pushing 65 and is healthy as a horse, and also looks much younger, I would tend to believe him over a study anyday.

He's been into health and nutrition for over 35 years, and he says the more antioxidants you get into your body, the younger you'll be, simple as that.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:38 AM
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And so what exactly is reactive oxygen?
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Reactive oxygen molecules are different than normal oxygen molecules. They have been changed by the process of "oxidation" and are very unstable. Because they are so unstable, they tend to react with anything they contact. When they contact cells in the body, or the DNA within those cells, the reaction is damaging and can cause the cell to die or the DNA to mutate.

Reactive oxygen molecules are produced continuously in all air breathing animals, including humans. These molecules are a byproduct of normal metabolism. Because the normal metabolic path depends on the consumption and chemical use of oxygen, the production of reactive oxygen molecules is unavoidable.

Because normal metabolism creates reactive oxygen molecules, and because reactive oxygen molecules are dangerous, animals have developed a variety of ways to deal with them. Primary among these is the production and use of chemicals called antioxidants, which can absorb the reactive oxygen molecules before they are able to cause damage.

It has been postulated that reactive oxygen molecules may be the ultimate force behind a variety of human illnesses, such as cancer, and perhaps even the root cause of aging. Research regarding these ideas is ongoing.
Reactive Oxygen Molecules
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:22 PM
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This information is spreading around the Internet like wildfire and I've found it to be getting misinterpreted with each recounting!

It actually irritates the heck out of me because the study was done and reported with supplements (or so they say!) - which could have very well been bogus compounds instead of high quality supplements. The researchers themselves admitted to the study being very small and non-conclusive and at the very end, said there is still no replacement for good nutrition and exercise.

I think this whole affair should be circular filed... Too many people will hear it and think they shouldn't get vitamin C and E or they will use it as a justification to not exercise. I believe it's a case of "bad science" and irresponsible reporting!

Oh, I have diabetes, I take C & E and I get exercise and I feel fine!

If you're interested in a lighthearted look at this, check this blog out https://www.crankyfitness.com/2009/05...mins-mess.html

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Last edited by bbmartin; 06-07-2009 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Add reference
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Old 06-08-2009, 11:18 AM
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Thats why there are forums like ours. To keep things straight!
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:48 PM
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I am so glad that I found this forum! It is like an island of sanity in a wacked-out world - but we do have hope, just more and more enlightened folks speaking up, correcting falsehoods and helping others with useful, effective health information.

I mean, what the heck was the real purpose of publishing that useless stuff anyway??

I know, the media loves to publish controversial stuff, if they can't find it, they create it!

Thank you for being here,

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Old 09-15-2009, 05:10 AM
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I do not buy taking mega doses of everything, however, 200 IU E (preferably mixed tocopherols or palm tocotrienals) and taking a gram of C a day is not megadosing. Before our modern era, the avg human ate many more fruits and veggies and was getting above a gram of C a day naturally. As for the other vitamins, I believe taking a multi once a week is sufficient, along with Vit D a couple times a week. One should be looking more towards a diet with a wide variety of foods and trying to go organic.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post

This is the biggest boat of hogwash.
We are always immersed in reactive oxygen. Oxygen is needed for a multitude of chemical processes in the body... and it is one reason why ozone therapy is so effective for stimulating the immune system. 01 is a natural by product of many reactions and it is utilized quickly.

What happens when you exercise is that free radicals of another nature are created... natural byproducts of metabolism, Also stored toxins may be released through increased metabolism. Oxidation may have absolutely nothing to do with oxygen. Oxidation means the loss of a molecule. Thats it. Nothing more. It goes on all the time in the body.

Vitamins will help reduce these multitudes of chemical compounds and should be taken before and after exercise.

Next thing you know they are going to be telling you that you should not eat or breath cause the nutrients and oxygen are killing you.
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post

Next thing you know they are going to be telling you that you should not eat or breath cause the nutrients and oxygen are killing you.
No kidding! Some of the data circulating is really that irrational!
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:04 AM
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Funny issue to consider: How many people suffer overdose poisoning of vitamins? For vitamin A it is like 10 a yr in the USA. Now ask yourself, how many people have reactions to pharmaceuticals and overdose on over the counter meds. I bet its in the 10s of thousands.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:24 AM
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It's to the tune of 100s of thousands...

Quote:
According to the groundbreaking 2003 medical report Death by Medicine, by Drs. Gary Null, Carolyn Dean, Martin Feldman, Debora Rasio and Dorothy Smith, 783,936 people in the United States die every year from conventional medicine mistakes. That's the equivalent of six jumbo jet crashes a day for an entire year. But where is the media attention for this tragedy? Where is the government support for stopping these medical mistakes before they happen?
From https://www.naturalnews.com/009278.html

I've personally read in recent health blogs about people who used this false vitamin scare to justify NOT EXERCISING.

Physical activity is one of the fundamentals to health. So I suspect anything that negates it as a vital component to improving health.
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