\r\n \r\n Here\'s Dr. Weil\'s take on it.
\n
\nhttps://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA40041...ight-Loss.html
\n
\nI thought Dr. Michael Eades discussed this (in the past) but I couldn\'t find anything when I Googled it.
\n
\nI don\'t know anyone who\'s tried it. Kevin T\'s a little shady, in my opinion. But, that doesn\'t mean it doesn\'t work. \r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n You\'re officially invited to visit my natural health blog: www.healthyfellow.com\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Have you considered the Atkin’s diet? I just finished reading a book about using Atkin’s diet for the control of diabetes. The approach that this diet follows makes sense to me. Conversely any diet that restricts your intake of calories and has you feeling hungry all the time is going to be hard to stay on.
\n
\n With Atkin’s you change the type of foods that you eatnot the quantity . Basically you drastically cut back on sugars and carbohydrates, because your body quickly burns these up, or worse stores them as fat, thus leaving you feeling hungry. In place of them high protein foods are used instead. These take your body longer to convert into sugar/energy. Consequently your body is getting a steady trickle of energy rather a large burst followed by nothing followed by another large burst, etc.
\n
\n Also when you cut back on the carbohydrates and sugars this tells your body it is time to start burning some of those fat cells that it has been so diligently storing away for future use.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I have to agree with Dr. Weil - who needs to pay for HCG if you are eating only 500 calories?
\nEating less than we need is a guaranteed way to lose weight. There is no need to pay someoen else to tell us how to do it, or to buy a doubtful substance.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Atkins Diet is useless.
\n
\nThe only Carbohydrates that are likely to convert to Fat in reasonable amounts, are Simple Sugars, that interact with the Liver, and only some not all of the Simple will.
\n
\nStarchy probably could convert, in very high amounts, but Atkins is based on the premise of cutting Bread, Potatos etc etc, which are also starchy.
\n
\nThis in theory would produce more Ketones and strip Fat.
\n
\nAtkins as a weight loss aid, has been reported giving people flatulence and bad breath, and after about 2 weeks, you\'re supposed to eat the Carbs again which puts weight back on, because the Metabolism gets used to lower calories, so increasing them dramatically, causes the body to think some of them are excess and not needed, converting them to Fat.
\n
\nHis methodology was seriously flawed, and his diet is useless. I don\'t subscribe to his way of thinking at all. He unfortunately didn\'t understand the mechanics of his diet plan, thereby he blindly carried on espousing it.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Thanks for the info Harry, I passed it onto my girls... their comment was that the diet/therapy has been around for fifty years, apparently it has to work to some extent...They are going to try it no matter what I say, unless I can give them proof that it will hurt them.. I have suggested atkins to them, I have suggested the anti fungus diet to them, but they arent willing to put the effort into these diets... Apparently someone one of my daughters work with, is using this diet/therapy and is losing weight fast and easy, and apparently this is what the daughters want... As for me, I just want to see results for all my efforts.... will I try this diet... probably not.. I am going to stick as close to the atkins as I can, and work with this naturopath to try and fix my messed up body.... I did order the book tho... I read on the other forum the beginning of the protocol as they call it, and its a month worth of detox... and that I am interested... but it goes into detail in the book..so I plan on reading it.... And Im wondering about the idea of using the elotin to keep the blood sugar stable, isnt that the stuff that jurplesman from the other forum promoted?
\n
\nBoss, I am still not totally convinced that atkins is the way to go, it makes me nervous eating all that meat and fat, being as big as I am... I keep wondering if I am going to give myself a heart attack... but, what I do know, is that carbs make me sick. Here is a thread that I started along while back, about me figuring out what carbs do to me.
\n
\n/exercise-dieting/1306-my-discoveries-weight-loss-nutrition.html
\n
\n And the worst part of it is, that as bad as I know they hurt me, I keep eating them...I can go for awhile without them, but then someone will bring home something, and it looks so good that I break down and eat it.. then I start my spiral downward into eating the junk all over again... I have even noticed a few more symptoms... a sore that didnt heal, waking up with headaches and dizzyspells. I know carbs are bad for me, and I know I have to get off them, but its not as easy as everyone thinks....sometimes I think its worse then a drug addiction.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I did read some of what you posted Just Me. Ir seems to me that the main bulk of your problem exsited with processed and refined Carbs, and also what appears to be Goitergens, I.e. Leafy Raw Veggies content, playing games with your Thyroid.
\n
\nThen it seems that you might not be totally Carb sensitive for want of a better word, but you could potentially have some Carbs, for select sources, and in some cases make sure they are cooked as well, as my research indicates, cooking them would kill the Goitergens interacting with your Thyroid hormones, and the Thyroid when Iodine is lower than it should be.
\n
\nI would therefore say, you don\'t have to completely go Carb free, but I would suggest ones that you already know, and already worked out must be cessated.
\n
\n1. Refined and processed Carbs.
\n
\n2. Rice and Whole-grains, (both high GI).
\n
\n3. Leafy Veggies.
\n
\n4. Soy, (to be on the safe side), possibly other legumes including Peanuts, Peas, Lentils, and Beans.
\n
\n5. Possibly most Fruits and Dairy, owing to the fast acting simple Carbs, (as The Isle Of Langerhans, the Insulin producer, is part of the Endocrine system same as the Thyroid). Some slower digesting Carbs, obviously that aren\'ty simple, might be okay.
\n
\n6. Cruciferous Veggies, like Turnips, Broccolli etc etc.
\n
\n7. Possibly not Potato and Parsnips, as they\'re high GI, I\'d aim for lower GI, sources as well.
\n
\n8. Dried Fruits like Dates etc etc, as they\'re high GI.
\n
\nI would therefore suggest you might possibly be alright with the following sources, as they are not Cruciferous, Leafy, high GI, packed with Simple Sugars, derived from Dairy, Contain soy, or are any type of Legumes.
\n
\n1. Tomatos
\n
\n2. Mushrooms
\n
\n3. Peppers
\n
\n4. Onions and Red Onions.
\n
\n5. Cashews.
\n
\n6. Carrot.
\n
\n7. Cucumber.
\n
\n8. Lettuce.
\n
\nThose are possibly the only sources of Carbs you could havee, (that I can think of), that match none of the descriptions above, unless you tried to cook things like Broccolli, as appraently cooking for about 10 minutes plus destroys Goitergens, but to be on the safe side, I\'d avoid things like Broccolli, Soy etc etc, even if they were cooked.
\n
\nAgain, those are just possible suggestions, I cannot say for certain any of those would be okay or not, but they would be quite good if possible for certain things, I.E. Carrots, (Beta-Carotine), Tomatos, (Lycopene), Red Peppers and Red Onions, (Quercetin), Mushrooms, (B Vits, Iron etc etc), Lettuce, (Tocopherols, (Vit E)), Cashews, (Copper, possible Tocopherols), etc etc.
\n
\nObviously I haven\'t listed all the Micros and Carotenoids in those Carb source above, as those were a few examples, and I can\'t remember all of the Micros in them anyway, but if any of those could be consumed with a Thyroid issue at all, then it\'s up to you if you wanted to of course.
\n
\nHopefully there\'s some possible food for thought there.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Boss I am going to have to disagree with you on Atkins. There has been a lot of misinformation put out about it over the years mainly because it is different from other diets and many doctors have been afraid of it since it was not on their official list of acceptable diets. Yet new studies are now showing that these old ideas about it are false, and not only is it safe but it actually does work.
\n
\n Here is were I am coming from, about two months ago I visited my family witch doctor to get a new prescription for my blood pressure pills. Not having been there for awhile he runs the usual battery of tests and determines that I am now pre-diabetic. Talks about pills to control the blood sugar, gives me a monitor to check my sugar levels, and sends me off to see a dietitian. Now the thought of possibility having to take more pills is not acceptable, so rather then just putting blind faith in his recommendation I start doing my own research. This proved interesting.
\n
\n We are told that we do not know what causes diabetes, but we are looking real hard to find one. But even if we can�t cure it, we can manage the symptoms. We know that sugar aggravates the problem so we will give you pills to control your sugar and if that don�t work there is always insulin. And if that doesn�t work we have heart specialists, kidney specialists, eye specialist, etc. Who for a price are all willing to help you.
\n
\n However back in the early 1900�s while diabetes was a rare disease when it occurred it was cured by having the patient just change their diet. Also back then was the beginning of highly processed foods. Natural cooking oils became hydrogenated �for a longer shelf life� but lost their nutritional value, grain were refined to being nothing more then starch, milk and other foods were pasteurized to make them safe and last longer but they also lost their nutritional value. At the same time the consumption of raw sugar increased. The result is many of our foods are loaded with sugars of various types and not much else.
\n
\n So while your body takes the food you eat and converts it into glucose, the form of sugar that it needs for energy, what happens to all the excess? It is stored as fat for future use! Of course if the need to convert this stored fat back to energy never comes up, because of a continuing high intake of sugar, then we will continue getting fatter and fatter. Also at some point the body ability to handle this excess sugar starts to break down and you now have diabetes. Yet the dietitian that I talked to said that there was no link!?? When I causally mention Atkins she was horrified that his high protein diet would cause further weight gain. It doesn�t. But she had no problem with recommending breads, crackers, pasta, and rice. Which are starches that rapidly turn into sugar.
\n
\n As a result I have been �generally� following an Atkin� style diet. Monitoring my fasting blood sugar I found that it was consistently in the normal range of 65 to 99. As this was proving to be a non-event I started experimenting by checking it an hour after I have eaten. Here again I was consistently under the 140 limit. So then I experimented with different foods.
\n
\n One morning fasting level was 85. Have breakfast of rice krispies with milk and no sugar. Hour later blood sugar is 155!
\n The next morning fasting level is 86. Have breakfast of two eggs, bacon, and chocolate milk. Hour later blood sugar is 95!!!
\n
\n These are typical of the numbers that I have been getting. When I eat foods that are high in carbohydrates or sugars they are quickly converted into high levels of glucose which in turn cause the body to produce high levels of insulin to control it. The correspondingly high levels of insulin can cause blood sugar to drop below normal levels and of course you are hungry for more carbs. This in turn causes your blood sugar to be on a roller coaster of highs and lows, and eventually something is going break.
\n
\n A high protean diet provides a slow release of glucose into the body that the body is easily able to control without any undue stress and no hunger pains within a few hours of eating.
\n
\n The dietitian also recommended that I try losing some weight, not that I was grossly over weight at 185 lbs, well I lost 20 lbs without even trying. Also I have found that I can maintain my blood pressure by cutting my daily pill in half and then taking it once every two or three days. \r\n

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\r\n \r\n Congratulations Mad. What a sensible thing to do, and how right you are about processed, pasteurised foods losing their nutritional value.
\nI used to be horrified by the Atkins diet but over the years I have met more than enough people who use it and KEEP ON with it because they benefit from it.
\nIt is shameful that carbs are promoted so much, to the exclusion of a healthy balance of food groups. I saw information leaflets in a hospital recently, aimed at obese patients. They were no better that the dietician you saw!\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I understand that the carbs are the problem, I understand that the atkins diet is probably going to be the best way for me to go....Its interesting to know, that most of the foods Boss said I should stay away from are the foods the allergy testing shows that I am allergic to.. My only problem with the atkins diet, is the fear of all that meat and fat causing a heart attack. Or is that wrong teaching?
\nMad Sci, how long did it take you to lose the twenty pounds, and see a difference in your blood pressure?\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I can�t site any statistics but I general from what I have read meat and fat do not cause heart attacks and contrary to current views they my actually help prevent them. However as with most things moderation is also important. To quote from Harry�s article:
\n
\n Then once you have convinced your body that it can survive without soda pop, potato chips and white bread you can slowly start adding back carbohydrates even the above mentioned items. Obviously though you can never go back and consume them in the quantities that you once did. An occasional piece of birthday cake will do no harm just don�t devour the entire cake.
\n
\n My real goal here was to control my sugar level. But as a result I also lost weight over a 6-8 week period and my average blood pressure (mid 130�s / low 80�s) has remained the same except I am doing it with far fewer pills then what my doctor prescribed.
\n
\n

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\r\n \r\n \r\n Originally Posted by mari\r\n \r\n \r\n Mad, I am curoius. Did you experiment at all with the effect that fresh fruits had on your blood sugar levels? This time of the year when there is so much more available, we are eating a lot more fruits and I am wondering if this is OK? I am edging toward that pre-diabetic stage. \r\n \r\n

\r\n

\n
\n It is my understanding that sugar is sugar, it does not matter what form it comes in.
\n
\n Here is a list of fruits that Atkin�s recommends eating regularly:
\n
\n Apple
\n Blackberries
\n Blueberries
\n Cherries
\n Cranberries
\n Grapefruit
\n Orange
\n Peach
\n Pear
\n Plum
\n Pomegranate
\n Raspberries
\n Strawberries
\n Tangerine
\n
\n Ones to eat sparingly:
\n
\n Banana
\n Cranberry cocktail (with no added sugar)
\n Cranberry juice (with no added sugar)
\n Fruit cocktail (canned in juice)
\n Grape juice
\n Orange juice
\n Prunes
\n Raisins\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Well I\'m not a big expert on Sugars but I can explain certain things to you.
\n
\nSugar maybe Sugar, but Carbs are different, and Sugar is only one part of it.
\n
\nThe Carbs usually come in two main types, Sugar and Fibre.
\n
\nFibre in two types, Soluable and Insoluable. You probably know this stuff anyway.
\n
\nSugar in 3 types make up the bulk of all Sugars. Monosaccharides, (one Sugar molecule), I.E. Fructose.
\n
\nDi-saccharides, (two molecules), I.E. Lactose, (Glucose and Galactose).
\n
\nOligosaccharides, (between three and twenty molecules).
\n
\nThey all have enzymes that break them down, although a lot of them have Transferases similar to their names.
\n
\nFructose, Fructase
\n
\nSucrose, Sucrase
\n
\nFucose, Fucase
\n
\nLactose, Lactase, (Lactase digests Galactose in Milk, if it\'s not present you get Lactose intolerance).
\n
\nThose are all examples.
\n
\nYou can be intolerant to some, I.E. Lactose, Fructose, even Glucose, though Glucose intolerants, have been shown to be able to use Fructose as a good alternative.
\n
\nCarbs are not interactive in the same way. Simple Interact with the Liver, and some of the Simple can convert to Fat, and Simple are faster acting.
\n
\nComplex are more slow digesting, and are the ones that help replace muscle Glycogen after exercise, and increase Bloodsugar as opposed to Simple, that would increase Bloodsugar but not M G.
\n
\nThe thing with Carbs and Blood Sugar it depends on types, quantities, GI ratings, and cooking methods, as cooking can destroy some Carb content.
\n
\nHowever the biggest one is Glycemic Load.
\n
\nGL is calculated using GI.
\n
\nGI rates as 1-54, (low), 55-69, (moderate), 70+, (high)
\n
\nGL rates as 0.1-14.9, (low), 15-19.9, (moderate), 20+ high.
\n
\nTo calculate GL, one simple way is GI x total Carbs / 100.
\n
\nSo if you take something like Oat Cereal, (68 GI approx), and you have 30g Carbs, GL would be 20.4 GL.
\n
\nIf you used something else like Broccolli, (GI 14 approx), you get 4.2 GL.
\n
\nSo in both instance GL or Bloodsugar elevation is 20.4% and 4.2% respectively.
\n
\nOne actual probable cause of Diabetes is persistant regularly high GL, as to my understanding in the long-term, those high Bloodsugar spikes can potentially alter Blood acidity, and possibly trigger type II Diabetes.
\n
\nThe reason your Bloodsugar went up a lot with RK and Milk, is you have a high GI meal, with some Simple Carb on it, and probably created a pretty high GL.
\n
\nYou can actually workout combined GL\'s thusly.
\n
\nSay for instance you have a Cereal approximately GI 70, and Milk, GI 30 approx.
\n
\nYou have 30g Cereal Carbs and 10g Milk Carbs for example.
\n
\nCereal is 3/4 Total Carb, Milk 1/4 TC
\n
\nYou multiply 70, (GI) x 75%, (Percentage of TC), to get 52.5
\n
\nThen you multiply 10 x 25% to get 2.5
\n
\nYou then add the two numbers to get 55, combined GI.
\n
\nYou then workout GL by the method I described earlier which is 55, (CGI) x 40, (TC), / 100 and you get 22.
\n
\nSo in that instance you a Bloodsugar spike of 22%, from RK and Milk.
\n
\nThis is obviously, going to be potentially less of a problem first thing, when Bloodsugar is lowered, but it still causes a biggish rise anyway.
\n
\nThe thing with the Milk is, if you\'d had 10G carbs of Chocolate Milk for example, your GL would be approximately 3%.
\n
\nSo that\'s why your Bloodsugar shot up so much. Diabetics are probably advised to eat mainly lower GI foods like Broccoli, Soybeans, Tomato, Muscroom, Peas, etc etc, and if they consume high GI, like Rice, Potatos, Parsnips etc etc, do it in low amounts, or have a significant amount of low GI mixed in, like Mushroom and Rice, and possibly Peppers, so combined GI is lowered, and GL relative to Total Carb can be reduced.
\n
\nAlso one train of thought is, if you mix a Liquid and a solid I.E. Milk and Cereal in the body, although you increase calories, and stomach volume, you slightly increase liquidity of the mass, because overall mass will achieve lower molecular density by default, so uptake and usage of Carbs may be increased slightly, if breakdown of Stomach content is made easier.
\n
\nThat\'s just a thought of mine, not something stated as gospel.
\n
\nAlso the comments on Atkins about flatulence, bad breath and inneffectiveness, was based on a few people on a TV show, recanting their experience. Yes a lot of talk about it being bad, when possibly it might not have been so bad, has been abound, but my comments related to what I\'d heard from personal testimonies, and the show in question was not a medical show or diet show, it was just a random Q & A show with the hosts, kind of like ask them anything sort of thing, so there was no reason for anyone to have tried Atkins, to claim the breath and flatulence stuff, other than it obviously happened.
\n
\nJust what I observed. If there is undue negative hype about Atkins, fine, but past understanding and observations, have leant me towards a scenario of, an inadequate diet that can\'t deliver.
\n
\nI totally accept your alternative stance Mad, and it\'s good to debate these things, so I appreciate your comments .
\n
\nYou\'re a good man.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Your comments make sense, matter of fact I could pull similar quotes out of the Atkin�s book that I have just read. So it would appear that in the past much of the criticism of Atkins has been based on personal belief rather then actual information. However with new studies coming out that seems to be changing.
\n
\n As far as the different type of sugars are concerned it is my understanding that the body does not care whether the sugar comes from sugar or the converting of carbs into sugar as it is then converted in to the glucose, which is what really is fueling the bodies cells. Apparently there is a technical difference between sugar and glucose, although they are frequently used interchangeably.
\n
\n Anyway what is important for the diabetic is that they eat their �sugars� in small doses or in foods that will give a slow timed released. \r\n

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\r\n \r\n Never seen a forum where you reply to a thread and the title is blank to fill in, so I\'m not sure if this is being posted in the right thread.
\n
\nI wanted to reply to someone who asked about HCG. I didn\'t read all the responses but I saw some of the usual fare, where people who have not tried it are telling people all about it.
\n
\nThe fact is that eating 500 calories a day when you are taking the HCG hormone, will NOT slow down your metabolism. I have been off HCG for months and have continued to lose weight, and I do not go hungry AT ALL.
\n
\nI eat when I\'m hungry and don\'t stop until I\'m full. I have dropped 22 pounds since I quit taking the hormone and started consuming a lot of calories again.
\n
\nThe HCG protocol works. It is safe. It increases your metabolism. You do not deal with hunger or cravings. I had to force myself to eat the third meal many days on the protocol. (The first 3 days I was crazy hungry, though.)
\n
\nI lost 40 pounds the first 3 weeks on pharmaceutical HCG and then another 18 pounds the following 3 weeks on homeopathic HCG. I could not tell a difference between the two kinds. I had no hunger issues or health issues on either.
\n
\nI actually lost a lot more inches on the homeopathic HCG, even though I lost a lot more pounds on the pharmaceutical variety.
\n
\nI didn\'t do any of the Kevin Trudeau stuff, though I would have loved to, and I will get around to the detoxes including colonic irrigation, coffee enemas, as well as the switch to organic food.
\n
\nI did not change my soap of shampoo either. I just drank a lot of water and walked quite a few miles every week, although not every day.
\n
\nAs for Trudeau, he seems to be a mixed bag. I believe a lot of what he says is absolutely true and that the powers that be are upset with him for speaking truth to power. But I think he also has issues that make me not comfortable taking his word. He has said he is A LOT older than he really is, for instance.
\n
\nBut I\'m glad he called attention to Dr. Simeons work starting in the 1930s on HCG as a facilitator of weight loss. For the research to be that old and valid, but to be ignored all those years, I have no choice but to agree with Trudeau, it really is the weight loss cure the powers that be don\'t want us to know about.
\n
\nThese same powers suppress cancer therapies that really work, for instance. There is a lot more money is keeping people in ill health, than in helping people attain and maintain good health.
\n
\nConspiracy theory? Nope. Just plain conspiracy.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I\'m not sure if it would be of interest, but there is a site run by a low(er) carbohydrate cardiologist named William Davis.
\n
\nThis may address both of your concerns, a healthy (lower-carb) diet and cardiovascular health. Just a thought.
\n
\nHere\'s a recent interview:
\n
\nhttps://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.co...-arteries.html\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Mad, I am curoius. Did you experiment at all with the effect that fresh fruits had on your blood sugar levels? This time of the year when there is so much more available, we are eating a lot more fruits and I am wondering if this is OK? I am edging toward that pre-diabetic stage.
\r\n
\r\nMari\r\n

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\r\n \r\n thanks Harry, I will check that site out!!!\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Ralph Moss just wrote a column about HCG. It\'s quite a critical assessment.
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\nhttps://www.cancerdecisions.com/071308.html\r\n

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\r\n \r\n The Eades have an excellent website as well. Mike does a regular blog and Mary does her own blog, though not as frequently.
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\nwww.proteinpower.com\r\n

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\r\n \r\n I think like all diets, people should be careful to consider their own body chemistry when attempting to go on a fad diet.
\r\n
\r\nThe Atkins diet is a diet heavy in foods that have a lot of zinc. It could be the people who have been successful on the Atkins diet really have a dereft of zinc in their system. Typically zinc is related to maintaining virility and sexuality, and the people who seem attracted to the foods- mainly meats, nuts, etc that are in the Atkins diet also are the ones who typically crave salty, savory foods as opposed to sweet.
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\r\nI think that when your body craves something, it is because there is some nutrient that is missing in your system.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n My mother was on the HCG diet in 1970 when she 38. She was not allowed to put any lotions on, water intake was restricted, and no more than 500 calories per day. She got a shot every weekday and was to walk every day. She lost a lot of weight and fast-only a few months. The problem with this diet is that it is not a permanent weight loss method. It is a temporary, fast, weight loss method. Just limit your calories to 500 and save the cost of the shots, but do get monitored by your doctor.
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\nI personally would not use this method for weight loss. If you have an immediate need for quick weight loss, I would just limit calorie intake to about 1000 per day, or limit carbs to 45 grams per day. I have used both and for me the 45 carbs per day is easy, fast, and with no cravings or hunger pangs.\r\n

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\r\n \r\n some mineral that is missing.\r\n

\r\n __________________
\r\n Let Food Be Your Medicine And Medicine Be Your Food.(Hippocrates)\r\n

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\r\n \r\n Joining this discussion a little late but I still wanted to try ease the OP\'s mind when it comes to HCG.
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\nNow I have never done the diet myself however a girl in my office recently did 40 days on the HCG Protocol and lost 30.6 lbs, this was on top of the 6.2 lbs she lost in the 4 week detox prior to starting which basically involved switching her diet to all Organic and entirely cutting out some foods like any dairy, wheat, alcohol and a few others.
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\nI personally think she would have lost even more but for a trip to the states in the middle where it wasn\'t so easy to stick to the protocol.
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\nWhen we were in the states I actually met 2 men who had done the protocol as well and they certainly looked well for it.
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\nSo from my own experience working with and meeting people who have done it I can certainly say it works but it without doubt takes a lot of will power to stick to the rules!\r\n

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