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Old 06-11-2012, 05:39 AM
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Default Atkins diet in trouble again

A new study from Sweden links the Atkins diet to increased risk of heart disease

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ol-levels.html
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:25 AM
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Everyone I know who has done the Atkins diet had a lowering of cholesterol.
And once again this page does not emphasize the importance of weight bearing exercies... Atkins said it would not work unless you did the exercies to create muscle mass.

Now take a look at that picture. Bacon and sausage... the worst selections of meat possible. Bacon is essentially trash food, not because there is a lot of fat but because it is deep fried fat.

and th Atkins diet is not suppose to be forever. Once the muscle mass is gained and weight is lost vegetables are to be reinstated... lots of green veggies... not bread, not pasta, not doughnuts, not a ton of refried beans and tortillas, but veggies to make 60 to 120 grams of carbs a day.
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:49 AM
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The straight dope on cholesterol
If you spent some time reading Peter Attia's series on Cholesterol and how important it is for health will understand why having a HIGH TOTAL CHOLESTEROL can be a good thing and a sign of good health.

What matters as far as Cholesterol is concerned is not the amount of cholesterol that's being transported through your arteries BUT the number of particles that are involved in that transportation. If you think about a motorway, it's the AMOUNT of traffic which causes problems not the number of passengers on the road.

People who understand Cholesterol Numbers know that it is the case that ALL CAUSE MORTALIY is lower when levels are higher.

Is the use of cholesterol in mortality risk algorithms in clinical guidelines valid?

Now read the Daily Mail article again where it says "5.5 millimoles per litre of blood, and for women slightly less."

Look at the graph of All Cause Mortality and decide for yourself if women whose current TC levels are below 5.5, need to lower or raise their cholesterol, in order to live longer?

And explain to me why men who have a level at 5.5 should either raise or lower that level?

Look at the risk level for men if they go higher or lower.
Surely 5.5 is optimum for men and women should really try harder to RAISE cholesterol if they want to live longer and not die.
The risk is shown by the HAZARD RATIO on the left hand side of the graph. Do women LOWER their HAZARD RATIO (less risk of death) if they get TC levels up to 7mm or do we see that line and the risk rising?

Do you really want to kill people by giving them inaccurate and dangerous information?


Heart disease and stroke are highest in countries with low saturated fat consumption.
Latest Ecological Data: Saturated Fat Protects Against Heart Disease


It is shocking the level of ignorance amongst reserachers and reporters that what is actually GOOD NEWS is regarded somehow as a reflection of poorer health.
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:20 AM
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One study does not make it 'gospel'. There are countless other studies that show the opposite.

When that study originally came out it was stated at the time that it wasn't as black and white as it appeared

https://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...61341020100204
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knightofalbion View Post
One study does not make it 'gospel'.
There are countless other studies that show the opposite.
Well give me an example that isn't from a study funded by Statin Makers.
This one tells us
each 1-mmol/L increase in total cholesterol was associated with an approximately 12% lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality
So do you really still think it's a smart idea to tell people to reduce cholesterol?

What matters ultimately is what happens in real life and we know from the European countries study that the more Saturated Fat you consume the LOWER is your risk of CVD. clicking the link downloads a pdf of the report to your PC.

It's about time you got real and understood the facts of life.
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:10 AM
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The type of fad diets you advocate make statin makers so rich. You can bs all you want about how good cholesterol is , but it will always be a sham. That is why you have to cite articles that find:
"Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults,"
and conclude by some leap of logic, that that means there is not a greater risk of cardiovascular mortality.

Thanks to diets with high animal content, statin makers will always have a great revenue stream since humans are not omnivores or carnivores and we cannot handle animal based cholesterol sources. Thus to compensate artificially statins will be needed.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasymachus View Post
The type of fad diets you advocate make statin makers so rich.
It is ludicrous to describe eating the foods humans evolved to function best with as a fad diet. The fad diet is that low fat, high carbohydrate diet that has been the vogue for the past 50yrs which causes increased appetite and therefore leads to excessive consumption and obesity.
Quote:
"Higher total cholesterol was associated with a lower risk of noncardiovascular mortality in older adults,"
and conclude by some leap of logic, that that means there is not a greater risk of cardiovascular mortality.
If we plot cholesterol numbers with either CVD or All Cause Deaths the same picture emerges



Cholesterol & heart disease – there is a relationship, but it’s not what you think Zoe Harcombe click to locate article


and for women

Women CVD


Women All Cause


I shouldn't have to point out that the lower incidence of both CVD and All Cause mortality is NOT at the LOWEST CHOLESTEROL levels.
Taking statins to reduce cholesterol levels below 5.5 mmol/l ~ 212 mg/dl only INCREASES your risk of death
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:14 PM
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Drs Eades, husban and wife who run a clinic did studies on the Atkins type of diet. They consistently brought down cholesterols that were 300 and 400+ to a noramal range about 200 to 230, all done in grosely obese patients. The atikins diet, like I said should not be done forever. It is a program to get a particular effect, mostly for people who have assaulted their bodies with trash food and over consumption of empty carbohydrates.

Thats Ted for taking this on as you usually do... It gives me a headache.

If you want to follow a middle of the road diet that is rich in nutrients look to Weston Price... he really understood the need for fats and the damaging effects of empty carbs.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:03 PM
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Let’s see we are told the Atkins diet is bad because it raises cholesterol. Yet there are numerous reports that show you should have reads in 200 to 300 range. But those individuals that have the recommended lower readings typically have shorter life spans.

What I see here is conventional medicine promoting their conventional ideas which also just happens to promote the sale of lots of statin drugs.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post
.

Thats Ted for taking this on as you usually do... It gives me a headache.

.
Thats supposed to read THANKS Ted.

and also regarding cholesterol. How high the total number is is not nearly as revelant as the ratios between HDL, LDH etc.

Poor ratios indicate metabolic disturbance that could be indicators of bad health down the road. Generally diet shifts correct the problem, but it could indicate a need for a good liver detox also.

Cholesterol Ratios

To determine these ratios yourself simply divide your total cholesterol and LDL numbers by your HDL number

Total cholesterol to HDL should be below 4 for both men and women
Good is 3.5, excellent is 3.0 and fantastic is 2.6

Ratios of LDH to HDL should be less than 2.5
(divide LDH by HDL)


To Raise HDL:

Niacin will raise 15 to 35% depending on dosage and consistency
Time release Rx is Niaspan
To help with flushing take at bedtime with aspirin and a low fat snack

Drinking 2 to 6 ounces of wine can raise HDL significantly

Quite smoking. HDL is 4 to 6 mg/dl lower in smokers

Eliminate trans-fats and add olive, coconut and grapeseed oil
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:47 AM
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@Arrowind: The Atkins diet is a trash food, fad diet, period. If you just got over your addiction to your animal products and over processed plant based products like white flour, you would not need a fad diet at all. You really have to work hard to become fat on a diet that is 90% based on real plant foods. The fact so many people get so obese on high animal content diets and need to use tricks like starving themselves of carbs shows alot about what type of diet is most optimal.

Dr. Eades is a fad diet pusher, first he pushed Atkins, now that it is generally discredited he pushes paleo which is more in vogue. Weston Price is not middle of the road, he pushed unfounded quackery. I have his book. What he did is nothing compared to modern epidemiology, which the quacks of the Weston Price foundation are against. Price talked about a mysterious "x-factor" in milk that allegedly made it healthy. But modern nutrition and epidemiological research shows animal milk is not healthy. Sally Fallon the President of the Price Foundation is a bit of a whale, which she of course tries to hide in her books:


@Mad Scientest:
The two biomarkers that matter most are C reactive protein and cholesterol, especially LDL. Any LDL level over 100 is atherogenic(artery clogging). Guess what type of diet increases both of those biomarkers to unhealthy levels?

Do yourselves a favor, stop listening to latest fad diet that by some sorcery advocates even more disease causing animal products.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasymachus View Post
Sally Fallon the President of the Price Foundation is a bit of a whale, which she of course tries to hide in her books
Just spent too long composing a full rebuttal of you post and lost it as it was submitted.
However I'd got to this point.
Impact of obesity, overweight and underweight on life expectancy


If you follow the lines for women you'll see for women Sally Fallon's age having a certain amount of overweight is a sign of good health and omen of longer life
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:52 PM
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Man where do you get all this total garbage, Ted? Why do you follow lame blogs and every unhealthy animal based fad diet?

I have a feeling some Paleo or Atkins scammer was responsible for popularizing that confusing image which laypeople cannot understand or interpret, so that we can ignoring the actual results. Looking at the actual study he linked to instead of the misleading graph, the abstract concludes the opposite, as usual, of what he claims:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Masato Nagai et al
Impact of obesity, overweight and underweight on life expectancy and lifetime medical expenditures: the Ohsaki Cohort Study

...

Conclusions According to the point estimate, lifetime medical expenditure might appear to be higher for obese participants, despite their short life expectancy. With weight control, more people would enjoy their longevity with lower demands for medical care.
Calorie restriction is well known to be one of the best markers for longevity. Further, eating calorie dense foods like meats and refined plant products, leads to a shorter lifespan. Eating more foods that have a lower calorie density like real fruits and vegetables, contributes to a longer lifespan.

I don't know how you manage to pack so much dense misinfo to every post.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasymachus View Post
I don't know how you manage to pack so much dense misinfo to every post.
LOOK AT WHAT THE GRAPH IS SHOWING.
LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE.
WHAT IS THE ACTUAL DATA SHOWING?

You tell me for yourself which line is showing the higher or lower rate for mortality?
It looks to me as if Sally Fallon is in the 25~29.9 BMI group I think putting her in the obese category is simply wrong.
Those who are just overweigt (not obese) have a better life expectancy than the red line those with BMI below 18'5

There doesn't look to be a significant difference between the blue/green lines.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:20 PM
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thras, I don't know why your rude attitude is allowed on this forum. There is no excuse for being crass and rude. A child acts that way because they are immature but you are beyond childhood. So claim proper decorum and you'll gain the respect you deserve.
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