actually smokers are confined to their little corner of the world at least in my country and I believe it is so in the civilised world
there is no smoking in restaurants or inside any buildings so no non smoker's hair or clothes can stink of cigarettes unless you hang around with smokers
industry & cars do a lot more to polluting the air than what smokers can

yep, as the antismoking frenzy proceded a major industry in Dallas just kept on dumping their toxic chemicals on the local populace without hardly a peep from the public... even after poisons were found in school air vents. Why? Because they all worked there and the company had a strong political lobby.
Follow the money and you will understand.
and I wonder how many of the cancers in that neighborhood will get blammed on smoking.

__________________

I think this anti smoking frenzy (smoke screen) has been whipped up to draw attention away from chemicals,pollution etc etc because it is much easier to blame smoking for every illness than correct pollution, or remove chemicals from our daily lives

it is a known fact that fine particles of pollution lodge in the lungs,heart,kidneys and the body cannot get rid of it, it causes cancers and other diseases similar to asbestos , a lot of elderly people die on a high pollution days
and chemicals, we all know they have many different affects on our health but are hard to avoid where as cigarettes aren't so yeah blame everything on cigarettes

imagine if our governments were forced to get rid of pollution and chemicals ,it would destroy most industries and our countries economies would crash

It is probably a bit higher now but the last statistics I recall stated the cost of manufacturing a pack of cigarettes was 32 cents per pack. This also included advertising and all obscene profits that these evil companies made. Everything else on a $7-8 (or whatever it is now) pack was tax!

So who is making these hugely obscene profits, without even having to produce a product?

Pinball
What you have enumerated is what I�m trying to say�there are MULTIPLE causes for disease. And yeah I don�t for a moment advocate smoking, but I am strongly against the simplistic (and incorrect) slogan of the anti-smoke wowsers: quit or die. There is, as you pointed out, pinball, more to it than that.

I cannot comment on all the points Gnomen has raised (it would take a book) so I�ll limit it to one. He says:
Look, the link between COPD and smoking cigarettes is so beyond proven�
Then he says:
denying well-done science is not an appropriate response
Well, science once told us that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. What was science yesterday is no longer science today. Science, while extremely useful, has its limitations and can effectively only cope with a few �controllable� variables � whereas in �real life� there are virtually unlimited variables. You know�if someone sneezes in China,there is a tidal wave in New York�that is, even �small� variables can have a huge effect
For years science has been touting that cholesterol is the harbinger of heart disease. The problem is, as they are now finding out, the problem is that about 50% of people who hit the pavement have normal levels of cholesterol.
Gnomen�s �beyond proven� is going a bit �beyond�. It is not even proven, let alone �beyond proven�.
But thanks for your tips on �organic smokes�. I�m looking for proactive. I am against BLANKET CONDEMNATION.

truestory
Yours is the kind of response I�m looking for because (I believe) you are in the majority, and those who kick smoking are very much a minority. And I don�t for a minute believe that those who kick the habit really do. I think the taste and the desire and the craving lingers on and on. I know of one guy, a farmer who I bought my land from, who kicked smoking. Quit it cold. Just like that. Two years later he started again. There are a LOT of stories like that.
All I�m saying is, if you can quit with impunity, good luck to you. But most cannot and the �QUIT OR DIE� propaganda is both wrong and in fact makes matters worse. Now people are not only smoking but they feel guilty as well�and the guilt will kill them deader than the smoking will!

Audi
That is an informed response�it shows that all is not black and white in this quitting game�I�m just wondering if people are warned about this thyroid problem and the no doubt other problems facing �quitters�? More to the point, are they told what to do about it? I suspect not�and they go at it bull at a gate style, only to find the nirvana promised by the anti-smokers is a mirage.
My sister�s daughter in law also quit�they quit at the same time - and the daughter in law is now also grossly overweight, but she is young and can cope with it, but my sister is mid-sixties, and she cannot handle that excessive weight.

Kight, I did not read past the second paragraph of your article. The article says: quitting smoking is a guaranteed way to improve your health and longevity. Well, my sister quit, and got worse. Much worse. I dislike these blanket generalizations. They are nearly always wrong!
And what about people who try to quit and cannot, and now, on top of the smoking they blame themselves, feel guilt, etc�
The best we can say, Knight, is quitting MAY improve your health. If you go any further than that you put yourself out on a limb.

Arrow
You bring up some great points�I can only address some of them
1 � your husband is doing well and smoking. I believe there are many like him. Let�s be real. The body is an incredible ADAPTIVE organism. Bacteria, for example, can adapt to the harshest chemicals we throw at them. Likewise the human body can adapt IF WE LET IT AND NOT BURDEN IT WITH GUILT, ETC.
Your mom died at 75, a very respectable life span�sure smoking may have contributed, but I think it�s irresponsible to say smoking was THE cause.
And I love your comment that we should pursue the chemicals in food with the same zeal with which we condemn smoking. Now I really do think that would be a huge PLUS.
And yeah�you mention political and economic interests�it is no secret that there is a LOT of money in promoting �quitting�.
Like you I recommend a more moderate, responsible approach and recognize that everyone is not equal and may require different approaches, rather than then �one size (quit) fits all�.

Audi, you say: industry & cars do a lot more to polluting the air than what smokers can.
Cars kill too. Should we �quit� cars as well?
On a similar note, the third cause of death in the western world is iatrogenic disease � that is �doctor-caused� illness. Should we hang a placard on every surgery door: �WARNING: DOCTORS ARE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH�?
I mean, it would be true.

audi, You call it the anti-smoking frenzy a smoke screen. Yes, I call it a scapegoat.
A similar situation exists on the roads where you have the oft-used slogan, SPEED KILLS. This one is another money spinner and huge amounts are going into government coffers on that argument. The fact is that speed is just one factor amongst others. Other factors are driver inattention, faulty cars, drink driving, faulty roads, driver drowsiness. The speed kills slogan is dangerous because it allows us to overlook other factors which may be just as important. Likewise, the SMOKING KILLS slogan may make us overlook other things that are just as important.

Madscientist is not happy that the cigarette companies are making huge obscene profits. So?
So is the anti-smoking brigade making a lot of money.
Point is�just because the cigarette companies are making a lot of money does not justify the misery caused by the frenzied anti-smoking crusade

The thing is that the more i get into a healthy lifestyle and the holistic approach on the matter the more i learn, so i adapt to what's healthy and to what suits me, what works for me...

So things i can cut out like Chocolates and Alcohol and canned food and so much more i did, i do...

But cigarettes are a pleasure for me, so by me pushing myself to quit and pushing and pushing (and failing) has a negative consequence on my mental health, so ok my solution was to find the ''healthiest'' way to preserve an unhealthy habit that makes me happy...That way is described in my previous post and i try to smoke in moderation too but do not sweat over it, as far as cigarettes are concerned...

And also from a long experience i had with cannabis i learned about myself, the person i am. Me im the type of radical person and i know that by me letting myself enjoy cannabis FREELY (the way i always end up) will ALWAYS eventually lead me to consume 2-3+ grams a day, staying away from people, spending Alot of money, damaging my health (i always smoked joints, weed mixed with tobacco without filters, so imagine), and i went through phases of smoking and selling and stopping and i always came back, and everytime i came back i started little by little, even when trying to limit it and be in control and just do it recreationally and frequently i ALWAYS ended up smoking like a TRUE pothead, like a fucking addict...and when this deadly circle repeats itself over the years over and over again you eventually get to know yourself, understand yourself, realise you cannot control it, and so you got (I Got) 2 options left, smoke the way you love, or dont, and as far as cannabis is concerned i decided Not to since some time now...
But this is all me, im sure others can just have a joint at night a few times a week here and there and im not saying i wouldnt do it if i could, but i cant and since i cant i gotta do whats right for myself, because i know myself...

But all in all i do love smoking weed, so if it happens for me to be in a situation where its being smoked, i will smoke..I pushed myself far enough, now again i go back to mental health and if its really occasional i think it even benefits.. i just try to keep myself away from those situations where there's a joint being passed around even though they occur so frequently, and i also never go out and buy any for myself to smoke, i used to love smoking at home, alone...so i limit myself, and that self-imposed limit is the way to go for me, and i can do that as far as weed is concerned...

And to end it, of course im a good person and wont light a cigarette if someone next to me is eating or is a non smoker, i will ask for permission and if they say no than i will just wait untill their meal is over or just get up, move, and smoke elsewhere...
But there are always people that can have a huge effect on a person by what they say, usually those people are family, so when those people start ''busting your b**s'' about you smoking, it can really bring you down and i understand that bcuz you know, been there done that, so eventually for that and many many other reasons i've cut everyone out of my life, and its kindoff a lonely place to be, but necessary, like Jesus went through(if you believe in god hehe) but that a long story...end

1) I admire anyone who is prepared to stand against the crowd - even if I don't agree with him/her.

2) Every cigarette smoked takes something from your lifespan. And it does increase the risk of multiple conditions from dementia to your teeth falling out, so yes, giving up smoking DOES improve good health, or decrease risk of bad health, depending on how you want to look at it.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your sister, but that is a poor excuse. I'd say she died despite giving up smoking, not because of it.

You should have read on, then you would have seen how and WHY some people avoid lung cancer, whereas others do not, even though they may be smoking the same amount or perhaps even more.

__________________
https://holy-lance.blogspot.com

Na na na na noooo.
Quiting wasn't the worst thing she could do, getting fat was.

__________________

Well lazy, don't you think it's logical that eventually your luck is going to wear out if you load your lungs (more than several times) daily with smoke & chemicals from a burning stick within a couple inches of your lips? I'm no rocket scientist, but if I had to guess, I'd say there's your culprit.

People with addictions find all kind of excuses to justify their addictions.

My mother smoked from teenage years until her death at 75. Liver tumor. The liver processes, or tries to process, the toxins. She tried to quit once, but started gaining weight. She said she could not afford a new wardrobe. Well, that is partly true. We were on the poor side of the tracks.

__________________
-
- Jim
"The most powerful force ever known on this planet is human cooperation � a force for construction and destruction.� (Jonathan Haidt)

an elderly lady around 65 years who never smoked a day in her life had surgery for a blocked carotid artery, the doctor's said it was a build up of plaque that happens with aging
when her son was around 60 he too had surgery for a blocked carotid artery,the doctor's said his arteries became blocked because he was a smoker and should quit, they didn't even consider genes into it

this is not a joke but a true story

we are all going to die of something eventually even non smokers

Our cells are designed in such a way that we "could" have a life span of 120 - 140 years. (in good health) So in reality this lady wasn't elderly at all.

Blocked arteries are not caused by age. In fact, there are no diseases that are "age" related. Arteries become blocked for one of two main reasons. First, the person is deficient in one or more essential nutrients for a long period of time, say vitamin C... Maybe deficient isn't the correct word to use, perhaps I should have said "sub-optimal"... which would mean taking enough vitamin C to prevent scurvy, but not enough to repair small cracks in artery walls, etc..Then the body patches these cracks with cholesterol so you don't bleed to death internally, however, this process is supposed to be temporary, until you give your body the raw materials that it needs to repair itself, and if you don't, you die...since you can't keep patching the inside of a small pipe without making its diameter smaller...and smaller..

The other reason is simply diet and life style, or as I like to call it, listening to your doctor. He's the guy who tells you to stop eating butter, and eggs, and salt, and coconut oil because its bad for the heart... and start eating margerine and cooking oils, which are the very culprits responsible for inflammation and plugging arteries.


Smoking doesn't plug arteries, and neither do genes. That would be like blaming a flat tire on the radio, because the radio was on when the tire went flat..


Yes, there is no escape from death, however, you can drink and smoke and party like Patrick Swazy did and most likely die young, or you can choose to avoid the mine field of known "life shorteners" and die peacefully in your sleep at age 139.

And just for the record, when I quit smoking, I had cravings for about 4 months, that diminished totally, and don't crave or desire to ever start smoking again.

In fact, I will never smoke ever again unless I am struck by lightning..

__________________
Let Food Be Your Medicine And Medicine Be Your Food.(Hippocrates)

Yep. They really don't know what they are doing, nor what they are preaching.. Many things can cause inflammation and blockages of the arteries, including vitamin and mineral deficiency and microbes.

A lot of good points are coming out (in my opinion)�
Truestorytotell
Makes the excellent point that he gives up what he can give up (chocolate, canned food, etc) but if he pushes himself past a certain point it has an adverse effect on his health. How true! I honestly think many �quitters� are jumping from the frying pan straight into the fire�that is their angst, guilt, depression etc over not being able to quit is making them a whole lot worse than smoking ever would. And they become difficult to live with, to boot!
If the anti-smoking brigade had an ounce of intelligence � sorry, if they had an ounce of honesty left in them, they would allow for the �X� factor�that is we are all different and anti-smoking programs should be TAILOR MADE to suit each individual�s make up. If I lived on a desert island I would need a different program to truestorytotell who mixes with a lot of smokers.
This one size (quit) fits all, is the stupidest thing I�ve ever come across.

Knight
Knight says, yes, giving up smoking DOES improve good health
Then he adds that he is sorry about my sister who is now in worse health after she gave up smoking
What is this, knight? Collateral damage?
No one�NO ONE�can say quitting improves your health. The most one can say is that quitting MAY improve your health

Cookie
Cookie says: Well lazy, don't you think it's logical that eventually your luck is going to wear out if you load your lungs daily with smoke.
You see, this is what I don�t like about the anti-smoking crusade: they play on your fear.
Anti-smokers create an environment of fear, stress and paranoia. As far as I�m concerned theirs is a far greater crime than smoking ever will be!
So, OK, if I�m halfway bright I know that smoking may not be the best thing I can do. But I don�t want my nose rubbed in it everytime I look at a billboard!

Jfh
Jfh says: People with addictions find all kind of excuses to justify their addictions.
Show me someone, jfh, who does not have an addiction!
Certain sayings come to mind�
You know�
�He who is without sin cast the first stone�
You know that one?
Or
�People in glass houses should not throw stones.�
I say, live and let live. Save ourselves before we try to save others.

Great story, Audi
The thing is, we have to blame something, and smoking is an easy target. But not necessarily the correct target. Like the slogan, �speed kills��well, yeah, it might, but it might also the be bad roads, or a faulty car, etc

Pinball says:
� there is no escape from death, however, you can drink and smoke and party like Patrick Swazy did and most likely die young, or you can choose to avoid the mine field of known "life shorteners" and die peacefully in your sleep at age 139.
You see, these are the generalities that anti-smokers fling at us.
I mentioned earlier a friend of the family who dropped dead while servicing a car. He did not drink, did not smoke, did not stress out, his face was unlined, he was 50 and he just dropped to the ground, and that was it.
There are a lot of people who avoid the �life shorteners�, as pinball calls them but none have yet been reported dying peacefully at age 139.
The truth is we don�t have a bloody clue what causes aging and death, and blaming smokers is just an easy way out.

Arrow
Yep. They really don't know what they are doing, nor what they are preaching.. Many things can cause inflammation and blockages of the arteries, including vitamin and mineral deficiency and microbes.
Yeah, arrow, they just don�t know. They try to throw science at smokers, but it is pseudo-science. No real scientist would ever say that smoking kills. At most they would say, �Smoking MAY kill.�

Quitting wasn't the worst thing she could've done, but exchanging one crutch like smoking for another crutch like excessive overeating is. It's like someone who's addicted to pain killers saying, I quit the pills cold turkey, I'm a drinker now.

__________________
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanual Kant~

NatMedTalk and Beyond
PetForums