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\r\n \r\n Study suggests consumption of processed meat reduces lifespan...
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\r\nhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21682779\r\n
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\r\n \r\n I\'m convinced that it is the sodium nitrite.
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\nProcessed meat increases the risk of bowel cancer and sodium nitrite is thought to be largely to blame. It is added to hot dogs to stop them going grey, and keep microbes at bay.
\nStudies on animals have linked sodium nitrites to an increased risk of cancer.
\nThe World Cancer Research Fund carried out a global study on the dangers of processed meats and found that people who regularly consume 50g of processed meat a day — equivalent to one-and-a-half hot dogs — increase their chances of getting bowel cancer by 20 per cent. The charity believes nitrites are largely to blame.
\nIn the body, nitrites can react with protein-rich foods such as meat to produce N-nitroso compounds, or NOCs. Some types of NOCs damage the DNA in our cells and cause cancer.
\nIn 2006, scientists analysed more than 60 studies and found that nitrites are also linked to higher risks of stomach cancer.
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\n ‘Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.’ Sir Winston Churchill\r\n
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\r\n \r\n\r\nDefault\r\n\r\n Like always, there are two sides to correlational studies\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Which of these sources will give you the most ingested nitrites:
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467 servings of hotdogs
1 serving arugula
2 servings butterhead lettuce
4 servings celery or beets
your spit
The answer is obvious ... or is it?
\n How often do we hear advice to avoid processed meats — like hotdogs, bacon, ham and sausages — because they contain nitrates that have been linked to cancer? There is no safe amount of processed meats, the project director for the World Cancer Research Fund report told Dr. Albert Lim Kok Hooi of The Star this month. [Dr. Hooi’s article also claimed, ostensibly based on that WCRF report, that two-thirds of all cancers could be prevented if we were all thin, ate right and didn’t smoke. It advocated plaques at the entrance of all restaurants, school and office cafeterias warning: “Obesity causes cancer!” \r\n \r\n
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\r\n \r\n As is nearly always the case, food fears are short on science and tall on misinformation. Many may remember that scare from the 1970s, claiming that nitrates could be carcinogenic, based on a report said to have found lymphatic cancer in 13 rats. Few consumers heard the rest of the story: that the preliminary MIT research behind that scare had had no peer review prior being acted on by the FDA and USDA, and was later discredited as faulty when an interagency working group of scientists from the FDA, USDA and NIH was convened to review the scientific data. The study was also sent to outside reviewers. As a 1983 risk assessment from the National Research Council noted, normal FDA review procedures hadn’t been followed during that scare, in what had seemed justifiable at the time to protect public health and in response to consumer group petitions; but “normal peer review would have revealed the fatal flaws in the MIT data.”
\nIn 1981, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed the scientific literature and found no link between nitrates or nitrites and human cancers, or evidence to even suggest that they’re carcinogenic. Since then, more than 50 studies and multiple international scientific bodies have investigated a possible link between nitrates and cancers and mortality in humans and found no association.
\n What may be more surprising to learn is that scientific evidence has been building for years that nitrates are actually good for us, that nitrite is produced by our own body in greater amounts than is eaten in food, and that it has a number of essential biological functions, including in healthy immune and cardiovascular systems. Nitrite is appearing so beneficial, it’s even being studied as potential treatments for health problems such as high blood pressure, heart attacks, sickle cell disease and circulatory problems. \r\n \r\n
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Junk Food Science
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\nSeems like another one of those, "Eat margarine, butter is bad for you" kinda studies.
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\nMust be a slow news day in Britain. \r\n
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jfh will become famous soon enoughjfh will become famous soon enough
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\r\n \r\n Many vegetables contain nitrites. Celery is a good source of such. But sodium nitrite is not natural and not good.
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\nCarbon is not bad for us, but carbon monoxide is. Actually carbon dioxide is too.
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\nFluoride, found naturally in tea, may not be bad in small quantities, but sodium fluoride is. and is found in most municipal drinking water.
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\nIt is the chemical composition that makes for bad health. And chemical composition is not the same thing as its parts. Take for example chlorine and chlorine dioxide.
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\nYou might complain about food that contains monosodium glutamate (MSG), but most plants naturally have msg. And msg makes up about 10 to 25 % of all food protein, from both animal and vegetable.
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\nWhen these things are added to our food or water, they are not as small quantities was would be found in nature.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n How about sodium chloride? Is it bad?
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\nSodium citrate? Sodium bicarbonate?
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\nNitric acid in strong enough concentrations can be no fun.\r\n
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jfh will become famous soon enoughjfh will become famous soon enough
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\r\n Originally Posted by Solstice Goat\r\n View Post\r\n
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How about sodium chloride? Is it bad?
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\nSodium citrate? Sodium bicarbonate?
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\nNitric acid in strong enough concentrations can be no fun.
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As you said, "strong enough concentrations". Yes. When added to our food, -' + '-' + '-bad. Sodium chloride is the worse of the lot for me - hypertension. Processed food seems to contain a lot. Then they trick the label and say something is 2 servings, so they can halve the sodium content and other things.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by jfh\r\n View Post\r\n
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Sodium chloride is the worse of the lot for me - hypertension.
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\n Then they trick the label and say something is 2 servings, so they can halve the sodium content and other things.
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\nYou are sodium sensitive? My understanding is that it is a rare condition. Of course processed salt is nearly all sodium, whereas natural salt is much higher in chloride, which has been shown to lower blood pressure.
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\nYes, I remember those days! Two eight ounce servings in a twelve ounce can.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Solstice Goat\r\n View Post\r\n
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You are sodium sensitive? My understanding is that it is a rare condition. Of course processed salt is nearly all sodium, whereas natural salt is much higher in chloride, which has been shown to lower blood pressure.
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\nYes, I remember those days! Two eight ounce servings in a twelve ounce can.
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I\'m sodium sensitive too - no matter if it is table salt or sea salt, my body doesn\'t seem to care.
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\nBut then again when we are faced with so many chemicals that weaken the body it is not surprising that we react to things which ought to be healthy and essential.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Aelphabae\r\n View Post\r\n
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I\'m sodium sensitive too - no matter if it is table salt or sea salt, my body doesn\'t seem to care.
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\nBut then again when we are faced with so many chemicals that weaken the body it is not surprising that we react to things which ought to be healthy and essential.
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\nNot all sea salt is equal either. \r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Solstice Goat\r\n View Post\r\n
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Not all sea salt is equal either.
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Agreed... although my body doesn\'t seem to care if it\'s Himilayan, French "Grey", etc.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Aelphabae\r\n View Post\r\n
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Agreed... although my body doesn\'t seem to care if it\'s Himilayan, French "Grey", etc.
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\nInteresting.
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\nOur bodies seek a certain amount of sodium to keep our osmotic equilibrium in balance.
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\r\n \r\n (NaturalNews) A new European study published in the May 4 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that a low salt diet increases the death rate from cardiovascular disease and fails to prevent high blood pressure. These startling findings, reported by The New York Times, are diametrically opposed to traditional medical thought, which for decades has spurred doctors to recommend a restricted salt diet to their patients. Limitations and problems in the study, however, have fueled the debate over the salt issue.\r\n \r\n
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Ted_Hutchinson will become famous soon enoughTed_Hutchinson will become famous soon enough
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\r\n \r\n I\'ll carry on eating bangers, says industry\'s biggest critic, who rubbishes claims that processed meats could kill us providing they are eaten in moderation
\nPeople have eaten bacon and sausages for centuries without ill effect
\nThis is least reliable kind of scientific study - other factors could be involved
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jfh will become famous soon enoughjfh will become famous soon enough
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\r\n \r\n I suspect you are being somewhat sarcastic in your gentlemanly soft spoken way Ted. However, I do like that report. I well remember, in my neck of the woods, that most of the folks were heavy into processed meats for winter storage. But to my dislike, most were heavily salted for preservation. I mean heavily. Pork bellies (bacon) has been for a very long time, but whole shoulders were too. I also remember going to the butcher and watching him grind the meats into sausage in putting it into casings.
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\nWell, those were the good old days when we knew what was going into the process and mostly where the meat came from. No such thing as antibiotics or genetically modified anything.\r\n
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\nSarcasm, Hell! Bangers, mash and peas!
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\nSt Patrick\'s ushers in Irish Bangers at Costco. Not gonna screw up like last year; I\'m filling the freezer. \r\n
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Interesting.
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Not doubting that, but also keeping in mind that all bodies are different. Sodium is also gained from various sources outside of direct salt intake so limiting the addition of salt to the diet is not cutting all sodium from your body.\r\n
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Not doubting that, but also keeping in mind that all bodies are different. Sodium is also gained from various sources outside of direct salt intake so limiting the addition of salt to the diet is not cutting all sodium from your body.
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\nTrue, however, by not eating natural salt, intake of the essential mineral chloride will be limited.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Years ago, most people ate processed meat once or twice per year. Now most people eat processed meat several times per day, and that is a big issue.
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\nProcessed meat is preserved with nitrates or nitrites, as mentioned by Jim, and it is these preservatives that poison the body. These poisons are in all deli meats, sliced bacon, peperoni, etc., and also pizza and in burgers.
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\nThe only solution is to avoid these "meat" products.
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\nAs for the salt, sodium and chloride are essential nutrients without which you can\'t make stomach acid. Sodium/chloride is essential to move water around in the body, for proper brain function, and health in general.
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\nSodium must balance with potassium, so if you use alot of salt, increase your potassium intake by eating a banana or two per day.
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\nThe Japanese use 11 or 12 grams of salt per day, and have much less stroke and heart attack than us westerners, because salt has nothing to do with high blood pressure or heart attack.
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\nI would suggest using a real salt as opposed to regular table salt, which is stripped of all its trace minerals, heated to very high temperature, then chemicals are added to help prevent clogging in the salt shaker.
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\nI would suggest a good quality sea salt instead.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Mmm... you don\'t need large amounts of it and it can be found in seaweed, rye, tomatoes, lettuce, celery, and olives. What is the tradeoff of getting Chloride through salt if you have an inflammatory response when eating it? I\'d rather stick to eating whole foods than eating salt, becoming inflamed and then dealing with the repercussions of that.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n I remember trying that country ham stuff once..OMG.. the salt was unbearable.. and I could feel my blood pressure rising and I didnt have a blood pressure issue then..\r\n
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I remember trying that country ham stuff once..OMG.. the salt was unbearable.. and I could feel my blood pressure rising and I didnt have a blood pressure issue then..
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I saw a slice in a package and bought it (like 15 yrs ago), it was like eating straight salt. Disgusting\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Grossly irresponsible of Mr Kresser to say all that. Google \'red meat cancer link\' there are pages and pages of results. Scores of studles have shown conclusively that red meat consumption increases cancer risk.
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\nWho is Chris Kresser? Oh yes, an apologist for the now debunked \'Caveman diet\'.
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\nKnight notes that Mr Kresser has launched his own range of supplements. Cavemen took bottled supplements?
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\nThough if the \'caveman diet\' is so wonderful what do \'you\' need supplements for anyway? Oh yes, that\'s right, because the theory is flawed.
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\nhttps://www.180degreehealth.com/tag/supplement-scams\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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Grossly irresponsible of Mr Kresser to say all that.
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I\'m afraid I\'m not in the mood to respond to those who haven\'t understood human evolution and grasped the idea that the way humans live now is somewhat different to the time when the bulk of our evolution occurred.
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\r\n If you\'ve lived for many years eating the typical Western Diet it is unrealistic to think that just switching to a paleo or low carb approach is instantly going to restore all your vitamin/mineral deficiency states overnight.
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\r\nIf you think about Vitamin D or magnesium it should be obvious that modern food sources irrespective of whether or not they are paleo/low Carb or Veggie will fix those deficiency states however much attention to detail you apply.
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\r\nGet yourself a
\r\n blood test and unless you are taking an effective strength supplement you will be below 125nmol/l 50ng/ml if you live in the UK it won\'t make any difference whatever your diet you still need some essential vitamins.\r\n
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\r\n \r\n Isn\'t it strange how all these \'Paleo gurus\' have expensive books, supplements and shakes to hawk.
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\nIf the Paleo diet can make you ill, and requires the use of supplements and shakes, then it isn\'t a healthy diet, it isn\'t a natural diet and it certainly isn\'t the "ideal diet" - and nor should it be promoted as such.
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\nIt isn\'t historically accurate either. Man is naturally a fruitarian.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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Isn\'t it strange how all these \'Paleo gurus\' have expensive books, supplements and shakes to hawk.
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No one is forced to buy the books they write and there is ample information on their websites available for free.
\r\nI\'ve not found it necessary to buy their books or their supplements and I\'m sure that\'s the same for most people following their advice.
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\r\n \r\n If the Paleo diet can make you ill,\r\n \r\n
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As you know perfectly well eating the foods human DNA evolved to eat generally makes people feel a lot better But if you\'ve lived the whole of your life consuming foods human DNA didn\'t evolve with you may have serious damage to your immune function or your digestive tract and in these cases the supplements these people recommend may be helpful. But for most people the paleo diet will mean they can manage with fewer supplements that either a Vegetarian or Fruitarian diet would require over the long term.
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\r\nCan a fruitarian diet land you in hospital?\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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Scores of studles have shown conclusively that red meat consumption increases cancer risk.
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There are two main reasons why red meat contributes to colon cancer. First, because of contamination of the meat with hormones, chemicals, and organisms, and secondly because meat stays in the digestive tract for a very long time, as much as 24 hours. Meat sticks to intestinal walls, which results in "rotting".
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\nThere is also an issue with the cooking of the meat. The more well done it is, the more damage it does.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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Grossly irresponsible of Mr Kresser to say all that.
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\nYes, it is horribly irresponsible to formulate an eating plan that maintains your health and body weight, and then share it with others. HORRIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!
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\nAnd to think he actually went to school and learned the fedgod food pyramid was a scam just makes me want to stoke up my book burning barrel!!
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\nFYI, circa 80\'s conjecture in not a healthy way to eat, which is why you continue to add pounds as the years go by. \r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Solstice Goat\r\n View Post\r\n
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Yes, it is horribly irresponsible to formulate an eating plan that maintains your health and body weight, and then share it with others. HORRIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!
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\r\nAnd to think he actually went to school and learned the fedgod food pyramid was a scam just makes me want to stoke up my book burning barrel!!
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\r\nFYI, circa 80\'s conjecture in not a healthy way to eat, which is why you continue to add pounds as the years go by.
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Rubbish! It doesn\'t matter who you are or what you are or where you\'re from, if \'you\' cut out junk food, sugar and added salt you WILL lose weight.
\r\nAnd if \'you\' refrain from eating junk food, sugar and added salt the weight will stay off.
\r\nIt\'s not rocket science and it\'s nothing to do with the Caveman diet!
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\r\nSimilarly many people have allergies to dairy and grains, with associated side effects. Often they don\'t even know they have these allergies. Giving up dairy and/or grains then clears up said side effects. This again is nothing to do with the Caveman diet itself, it\'s giving up the source of the allergen.
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\r\nAn analogy: Someone who smokes 20 cigarettes a day decides to quit and chew fruit pastilles instead. By giving up the 20 a day he will dramatically reduce his cancer risk, does that make chewing fruit pastilles a cancer remedy? Well, does it?
\r\nYou are attributing false positives.
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\r\nAs for these self-appointed Paleo gurus, they\'ve become millionaires by spouting quack science and quack history and by hawking expensive shakes and supplements - cavemen used shakes and supplements???? I\'d hardly bracket them as great humanitarians.
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\r\nIncreased red meat consumption increases cancer risk as countless studies have shown.
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\r\n"You continue to add pounds as the years go by". FYI, I\'m roughly the same weight I was in my 20s. I was athletic then and I\'m athletic now, only more muscular. And 100% meat-free throughout.
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\r\nA good read...
\r\nhttps://www.outlawfitnesshq.com/the-paleo-diet/\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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. FYI, I\'m roughly the same weight I was in my 20s. I was athletic then and I\'m athletic now, only more muscular. And 100% meat-free throughout.
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\nSays the guy who won\'t post his height and weight.
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\nIf you weighed 70% of what my nephew weighed at 17 you were morbidly obese. So if you truly are more muscular and weigh the same, you did have a problem with fat when you were younger. \r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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Study suggests consumption of processed meat reduces lifespan...
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\nhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21682779
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\nWhat about processed meat that doesn\'t contain sodium nitrate/nitrite?\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 1) Firstly, you seem to be overlooking the fact that it wasn\'t actually me who posted the bit about meat sticking to the intestines.
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\n2) Two YouTube videos and a Facebook link? Why not post a link saying the same thing as him from an academic establishment? It would add credence to your perspective, would it not?
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\n3) So what is it you\'re saying? You are right and decades of research and study findings from academic establishments in all corners of the globe is wrong?
\nNo disputing that at times academic establishments dance to the tune of big Pharm, big business and the meat and dairy lobby, but that certainly isn\'t the case here.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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1) Firstly, you seem to be overlooking the fact that it wasn\'t actually me who posted the bit about meat sticking to the intestines.
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\r\n2) Two YouTube videos and a Facebook link? Why not post a link saying the same thing as him from an academic establishment? It would add credence to your perspective, would it not?
\r\n
\r\n3) So what is it you\'re saying? You are right and decades of research and study findings from academic establishments in all corners of the globe is wrong?
\r\nNo disputing that at times academic establishments dance to the tune of big Pharm, big business and the meat and dairy lobby, but that certainly isn\'t the case here.
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The trouble with you is that you are in a paddy because you haven\'t a leg to stand on because humans evolved to deal with eating meat because that\'s what our digestive tract evolved to do best.
\r\n Read the article again and then set down in detail where you think the Stanton article is scientifically inaccurate or misleading.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Ted_Hutchinson\r\n View Post\r\n
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The trouble with you is that you are in a paddy
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I\'m in a "paddy"? No. Though I rather suspect you\'d like me to be.\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by Ted_Hutchinson\r\n View Post\r\n
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The trouble with you is that you are in a paddy because you haven\'t a leg to stand on because humans evolved to deal with eating meat because that\'s what our digestive tract evolved to do best.
\r\n Read the article again and then set down in detail where you think the Stanton article is scientifically inaccurate or misleading.
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We may have the capacity to eat meat, but it is not part of man\'s intended diet. Technically, we have the capacity to eat cardboard, though I wouldn\'t recommend it.
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\r\nHuman physiology is not designed for a carnivorous diet. Which is why high meat consumption has been repeatedly linked to the onset of certain cancers.
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\r\nHomo sapiens evolved from the primate genus. Man\'s natural and intended diet is plant based and the aforementioned human physiology reflects this entirely.
\r\nA fine article on the matter
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\r\n[The text is a little small. I\'d advise viewing it on 150% zoom]
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\r\nhttps://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-...tomy-of-Eating\r\n
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\r\n Originally Posted by knightofalbion\r\n View Post\r\n
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We may have the capacity to eat meat, but it is not part of man\'s intended diet. Technically, we have the capacity to eat cardboard, though I wouldn\'t recommend it.
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\r\nHuman physiology is not designed for a carnivorous diet. Which is why high meat consumption has been repeatedly linked to the onset of certain cancers.
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\r\nHomo sapiens evolved from the primate genus. Man\'s natural and intended diet is plant based and the aforementioned human physiology reflects this entirely.
\r\nA fine article on the matter
\r\n
\r\n[The text is a little small. I\'d advise viewing it on 150% zoom]
\r\n
\r\nhttps://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-...tomy-of-Eating
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\r\n
And again...\r\n
\r\n <!-' + '- / message -' + '->\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n
\r\n <!-' + '- controls -' + '->\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n Reply With Quote\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n <!-' + '- / controls -' + '->\r\n
\r\n\r\n <!-' + '- message, attachments, sig -' + '->\r\n\r\n
\r\n\r\n\r\n<!-' + '- post 211930 popup menu -' + '->\r\n\r\n<!-' + '- / post 211930 popup menu -' + '->\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
\r\n \r\n
\r\n
\r\n
\r\n\r\n<!-' + '- / close content container -' + '->\r\n\r\n<!-' + '- / post #211930 -' + '->'; // next/previous post info pn[211432] = "211823,211433"; pn[0] = ",211432"; pn[211433] = "211432,211435"; pn[211435] = "211433,211437"; pn[211437] = "211435,211440"; pn[211440] = "211437,211453"; pn[211453] = "211440,211454"; pn[211454] = "211453,211443"; pn[211443] = "211454,211444"; pn[211444] = "211443,211463"; pn[211463] = "211444,211485"; pn[211485] = "211463,211500"; pn[211500] = "211485,211590"; pn[211590] = "211500,211604"; pn[211604] = "211590,211610"; pn[211610] = "211604,211613"; pn[211613] = "211610,211638"; pn[211638] = "211613,211649"; pn[211649] = "211638,211664"; pn[211664] = "211649,211663"; pn[211663] = "211664,211695"; pn[211695] = "211663,211748"; pn[211748] = "211695,211750"; pn[211750] = "211748,211753"; pn[211753] = "211750,211755"; pn[211755] = "211753,211757"; pn[211757] = "211755,211758"; pn[211758] = "211757,211760"; pn[211760] = "211758,211782"; pn[211782] = "211760,211914"; pn[211914] = "211782,211929"; pn[211929] = "211914,211955"; pn[211955] = "211929,211759"; pn[211759] = "211955,211780"; pn[211780] = "211759,211795"; pn[211795] = "211780,211796"; pn[211796] = "211795,211803"; pn[211803] = "211796,211806"; pn[211806] = "211803,211808"; pn[211808] = "211806,211810"; pn[211810] = "211808,211930"; pn[211930] = "211810,211804"; pn[211804] = "211930,211823"; pn[211823] = "211804,211432"; // cached usernames pu[0] = guestphrase; pu[10240] = "knightofalbion"; pu[529] = "jfh"; pu[16702] = "Solstice Goat"; pu[1087] = "kind2creatures"; pu[16927] = "Aelphabae"; pu[1222] = "Ted_Hutchinson"; pu[489] = "pinballdoctor"; pu[17826] = "Dragon Lady"; pu[1486] = "saved1986"; pu[9696] = "limitme"; pu[13337] = "ozzie"; // -->
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:11 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Glastonbury, England
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knightofalbion will become famous soon enoughknightofalbion will become famous soon enough
Default Processed Meat = Early Death

Study suggests consumption of processed meat reduces lifespan...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21682779
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