The Marshall Protocol, STAY AWAY FROM THIS ONE

amigo

\r\n \r\n The Marshall Protocol is proving to be a very successful treatment for all sorts of chronic disease. The success rates are higher than any conventional treatment can even dream of claiming. Read just some of the success stories thus far:
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\nhttps://tinyurl.com/2pm37t
\nhttps://www.carouselcharts.com/Transc...coveryLAX2.pdf
\nhttps://winmlm.neostrada.pl/mp/townse...2007.Part2.pdf
\nhttps://bacteriality.com/category/interview-patient/
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\n(Oh, did I neglect to say? All these success stories, without exception, only happened because every ill patient eliminated Vitamin D from his/her diet)
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\nAnd remember this .... it was in 1982 when Drs Barry J. Marshall and J. Robin Warren discovered that ulcers were caused by Helicobacter pyloribacteria and not stress and lifestyle as was previously thought (doesn\'t say much for the efficacy of prior research that came to the silly conclusions) and they were laughed at by conventional medicine and faced criticism much like the nay-sayer post before this one. In 2005, they won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for their discovery. The same will be repeated for Dr Trevor Marshall, mark my words - they are already laughing at his discoveries surrounding the immunosuppressive effects of the secosteroid we call "Vitamin D" and the effects on the VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) and innate immune system. As with B Marshall and R Warren, T Marshall will have his day in Stockholm.
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\nHere is some information re the Vitamin D discoveries:
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\nhttps://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/1/prweb639651.htm
\nhttps://trevormarshall.com/BioEssays-...l-Preprint.pdf
\nhttps://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/
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\nHaving said this, no one ever said Marshall\'s protocol would be easy. Unfortunately, the immunopathology (herxheimer) is unavoidable. Kill the bacteria and everyone, without exception, feels increased symptomatology from the release of endotoxins. Those with heavy bacterial load and are sicker will likely feel it more and have more difficulty. It takes commitment and compliance. Many don\'t properly comply (e.g., especially with light exposure) and they pay the price. Those who are committed and compliant will eventually achieve recovery. Good luck!\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Hola Amigo,
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\nI\'ve spent some time on lyme forums and it seems that this marshall protocol does not work for everyone. Have you had success with it?
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\nReally, it would scare me to interrupt the Vitamin D pathways.
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\nCan you tell me what this is? Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species
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\nHey, and welcome to to the forum.

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amigo

\r\n \r\n Yes, I\'ve had some success with it, although I\'m not yet done. So has someone else I know. The treatment is not easy and takes patience, dedication and compliance. Not everyone has what it takes.
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\nhttps://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1146.html
\nhttps://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum32/1584.html
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\nVitamin D:
\nhttps://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/
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\nCell wall deficient organisms:
\nhttps://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
\nhttps://bacteriality.com/2008/05/26/biofilm/
\nhttps://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/2810.html\r\n

Arrowwind09 · 12:35 PM

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\nhttps://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
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\nhaven\'t had time to look at all this but I did look at this site.
\nI see several problems.
\nYes, estrogen replacement therapy has caused severe disease but just look at the crap they were giving to women. Not based on lab values for need, not an identical molecule, not balanced with progesterone. Their case is filled with holes.
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\nSo then they want you just to automatically shift over into their vit D theory. First of all I am seeing quite a few vit d deficient people. Second of all I have been on high dose vit D for a few weeks and am seeing some good progress in a skin condition.
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\nOff hand it sounds like hooey to me about the vitamin D
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\nThen this one: https://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
\nSeems to me that MMS is taking care of many of these type of microbes. A number of lyme people are responding quite well to mms who have lyme. As well as ulcerative colitis, crohns.
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\nAnd then this one: https://bacteriality.com/2008/05/26/biofilm/
\nBiofilms are everywhere and not new. Why do some become victims and other don\'t?
\nThere is a system of treatment for biofilms called phage therapy. They cure the worst MRSA with it and other disease as well. It use to be available in this country until pennicillin happened. Thank god Russia had the foresight to preserve the work.
\nThose who are most susceptible are those with the weakest immune systems or a system that just can\'t cope with a particular foreign bug. Why are some people MRSA carriers but never get the mrsa disease?
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\nI will keep my vitamin D, thank you.
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\nI would say that if the Marshall protocol does not cure you it will kill you. I haven\'t seen any testimonials where people were cured of Lyme with this protocol. If so show me. I have only seen, feeling a bit better and now back to work. Not cured.\r\n

SDD1244

\r\n \r\n I\'ve also had successes on the Marshall Protocol. I remember when my specialist first prescribed the treatment for me, I went online and read those same stats you posted. But I never did find any sources to back up those stats and the only thing I did see was that there were many very ill people slowly recovering on this protocol.\r\n

seanlane

\r\n \r\n I have been on the Marshall Protocol for almost a year and everything from Neuropathy to Bipolar has almost disappeared....i am glad I studied the science which is based on REALITY, not a lot of mis-information about Benicar and Vitamin D....Which is not a nutrient.I think what\'s really ridiculous is making statements about a science you obviously don\'t understand.\r\n

RCannon

\r\n \r\n There seems to be some validity to the Marshall approach. The active form of D, the 1,25 form does suppress TH1 but increases TH2. TH1 helps the cellular immunity and macrophage function. See wiki. So a bacteria that could inhibit this would be protecting itself. But the system function is still not well understood.
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\nHigh levels of 1,25 are caused by the bacteria with no cell wall, inhibiting the Th1 immune response. Getting more d3 from sun or supplements further increases the 1,25 active form via the kidneys, making it worse. So if you have a blood test and find high levels of 1,25 then there could be an issue, if you are suffering from a chronic fatigue type illness (lyme also). So the blood test is important to get.
\nThis is also why Cannell now recommends NOT taking cod liver oil because you get too much of the active form. Vit A and D should be converted as needed in the body in the precise ratio needed.
\nCannell also said that high D levels inhibit the immune response to flu shots (when talking about swine flu, 1918 etc).
\nIt\'s very complex.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n I don\'t know why exactly cod liver oil is falling out of favor. I notice that Mercola has turned against it also after many years of promoting it.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n

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I don\'t know why exactly cod liver oil is falling out of favor. I notice that Mercola has turned against it also after many years of promoting it.

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Vitamin A toxicity
\r\nI suspect the problem has arisen because instead of accepting the fact that CLO is a natural produce, with natural seasonal variations in Vitamin A levels, the makers decided they knew better and took out the variable amounts of natural vit A and sbustituted a STANDARD amount of Synthetic Vit A unfortunately I think the body can tell the difference and sometimes takes exception. In the same way some people can use D2 ergocalciferol and others can\'t convert it to D3. So Is Vitamin A Toxicity a concern Well it doesn\'t bother me. I see no reason to get alarmed about reasonable amounts. I do think it\'s important to have some.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

\r\n \r\n I don\'t know why anyone takes Marshal seriously.
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\r\nWiki on Trevor Marshall has some history and interesting details.
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\r\nDr Davis posted this
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\r\nIf Marshall is right would we find least incidence of chronic disease in folks with 25(OH)D around 50ng?
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\r\nWould we have evolved pale skins above latitude 40 if the human didn\'t require 25(OH)D to be above 50ng before breast milk become replete with D3. wouldn\'t earlier generations have died out before now?
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\r\nSimilarly we would not find peak physical muscular performance at 50ng.
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\r\nAnyone who believe vitamin D deficiency is not the cause of rickets is simply wrong.
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\r\nMarshall also believes vitamin D is toxic, despite the fact that we evolved with high levels of it.
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\r\nHe misinterprets the scientific literature to support outlandish claims.
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\r\nIf there is any truth to the theory that L-form bacteria are behind chronic disease, Marshal is doing it a disservice by associating it with these other theories.
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\r\nThere will always be some exceptions to the general rule. That is why we have sexual selection to make sure there is a variation in the gene pool to test out if particular genetic traits have particular advantages in exceptional circumstances. But the general rule is that if our DNA evolved to attain and maintain a natural vitamin D status given full body sun exposure then that is probably the natural level our bodies work best with. Only when we see papers reporting higher incidence of chronic illness at vitamin D status above or around 50ng will I take Marshall seriously.
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\r\nJust look at the levels of vitamin d given safely to people with MS. The seasonal fluctuation in the number of gadolinium-enhancing lesions determined by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) tend to be fewest at the times when serum 25(OH)D concentrations are highest. Taken together, the data suggest that vitamin D3 may play a role in the regulation of clinical disease activity.
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\r\nAnother analysis of Marshall\'s work\r\n

RCannon

\r\n \r\n There was another article on Vit D called Vit D- the Antibiotic Vitamin? in Science News a couple years ago and it showed how important D is in immune system function. So I think in general D is very important to have. And Cannell says D and A work together in a precise ratio, and taking active forms of A and/or D can upset this balance (cod liver oil for example) which the body maintains by converting as needed the precursors.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

\r\n \r\n The vitamin D-antimicrobial peptide pathway and its role in protection against infection.
\nVitamin D deficiency has been correlated with increased rates of infection.
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\nSince the early 19th century, both environmental (i.e., sunlight) and dietary sources (cod liver) of vitamin D have been identified as treatments for TB.
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\n The recent discovery that vitamin D induces antimicrobial peptide gene expression explains, in part, the \'antibiotic\' effect of vitamin D and has greatly renewed interest in the ability of vitamin D to improve immune function.
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\n Subsequent work indicates that this regulation is biologically important for the response of the innate immune system to wounds and infection and that deficiency may lead to suboptimal responses toward bacterial and viral infections.
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\n The regulation of the cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide gene is a human/primate-specific adaptation and is not conserved in other mammals.
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\n The capacity of the vitamin D receptor to act as a high-affinity receptor for vitamin D and a low-affinity receptor for secondary bile acids and potentially other novel nutritional compounds suggests that the evolutionary selection to place the cathelicidin gene under control of the vitamin D receptor allows for its regulation under both endocrine and xenobiotic response systems.
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\n Future studies in both humans and humanized mouse models will elucidate the importance of this regulation and lead to the development of potential therapeutic applications.
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\nThe antibiotic vitamin: deficiency in vitamin D may predispose people to infection Science News, Nov 11, 2006 by Janet Raloff
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\nAntimicrobial peptides and the skin immune defense system.Our skin is constantly challenged by microbes but is rarely infected.
\n Cutaneous production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) is a primary system for protection, and expression of some AMPs further increases in response to microbial invasion.
\n Cathelicidins are unique AMPs that protect the skin through 2 distinct pathways:
\n (1) direct antimicrobial activity and
\n (2) initiation of a host response resulting in cytokine release, inflammation, angiogenesis, and reepithelialization
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\nCathelicidin dysfunction emerges as a central factor in the pathogenesis of several cutaneous diseases, including atopic dermatitis, in which cathelicidin is suppressed;
\nrosacea, in which cathelicidin peptides are abnormally processed to forms that induce inflammation;
\nand psoriasis, in which cathelicidin peptide converts self-DNA to a potent stimulus in an autoinflammatory cascade.
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\n Recent work identified vitamin D3 as a major factor involved in the regulation of cathelicidin.
\n Therapies targeting control of cathelicidin and other AMPs might provide new approaches in the management of infectious and inflammatory skin diseases.
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\nI really think this is the crucial reason why getting some of your vitamin D made right on the surface of your skin right where it is needed is essential for immune function.
\nThese Cutaneous antimicrobial peptides CAMP genes are incredibly powerful. There are cells on your skin surface that can do the whole business from cholesterol through to the active hormone without bothering liver or kidneys. We wouldn\'t have evolved this capacity if it hadn\'t provided evolutionary advantages.
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\nMultiple Health Concerns Surface as Winter, Vitamin D Deficiences Arrive ScienceDaily (Nov. 24, 2009) — A string of recent discoveries about the multiple health benefits of vitamin D has renewed interest in this multi-purpose nutrient, increased awareness of the huge numbers of people who are deficient in it, spurred research and even led to an appreciation of it as "nature\'s antibiotic." more at link well worth reading.
\nHowever USE YOUR COMMON SENSE when reading.
\nThere is still much to explore about the mechanisms of action of vitamin D, the potential use of synthetic analogs of it in new therapies, and its role in fighting infection, Why do they want synthetic analogs for new therapies?
\nBecause you can\'t make money if people can use Over the Counter supplements at $15 for a years supply.
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\n 28,000 patients ages 50 or older with no prior history of cardiovascular disease. It found that in patients with very low levels of vitamin D -' + '- compared to those with normal levels -' + '- 77% more likely to die, 45% more likely to develop coronary artery disease, and 78% more likely to have a stroke.SO the safest option is to CORRECT VITAMIN D insufficiency NOW. Don\'t wait for your doctor, don\'t wait for new research, obtain a NATURAL 25(OH)D status with a NATURAL amount of vitamin D3 (AT LEAST 5000iu/d) and after 3 months get a 25(OH)D test to check you have actually got above 55ng/ml Only 137.5nmol/l. only if you are seriously above 80ng need you consider reducing the daily amount. UK readers will almost certainly require more but 5000iu/d for 3months will enable you to have a better idea how much your body uses and the sooner you get a reserve of D3 into your system the sooner your body will improve it\'s immune function.\r\n

phinat

\r\n \r\n Hello,
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\nI received the laboratory 25OHD result = 9ï¿½g/l (very low). So the Doctor prescribed a massive Vit D 600 000 UI in one intake. So, to understand, as I have Hashimoto, I arrived on Autoimmunity Marshall protocol, and was initially seduced (excepted some difficulties : only info on how to start, nothing on how to finish or stop for instance). And Marshall links the immunity illness with low D3, so it was an information that attracted me.
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\nWhat do you think about this massive dose ?
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\nIs there, or no, a relation between autoimmunity and D3 ? Or, won\'t a massive dose deteriorate my health ?\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Massive doses like this are used in some other countries. I attended a seminar where I found out that such dosage was given to nursing home patients yearly in India. So did you take the dose? How has it affected you?
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\nYou can bring up your D3 levels in a more gradual way but your level was sooooo low the doctor probably thought it merrited immediate attention!
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\nWhy were you on the Marhall protocol?
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\nI dont know much about Hasimoto\'s Disease but you may want to look into Iodine supplementation. Search Iodine on www.HealthSalon.org and you may find info regarding iodine and this disease.\r\n

phinat

\r\n \r\n OK, thank you for answer.
\nBest regards\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

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\r\n Originally Posted by phinat\r\n

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What do you think about this massive dose ?

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The form of vitamin D3 doctors use is D2 and this is less effective than D3 the form human body\'s use. That is one of the reasons the amount they use has to be so much higher.
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\r\nIf you were used to sunlight and spend all day in the sun carefully avoiding burning but getting as much sun as possible it is technically possible to achieve natural intakes of 50,000iu/daily/D3, although for practical purposes it is more reasonable to consider amounts between 10,000~20,000iu the result of daily sun exposure.
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\r\nA google search for 50,000iu cholecalciferol free shipping produces several options for cheap purchases.
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\r\nMy view is that it\'s important to get 25(OH)D from the present 9ng/ml to above a safer 55ng/ml The standard advice is to use 50,000iu each week for 8~12weeks then retest to see if this is sufficient. This equals just over 7000iu/daily.
\r\nIf you were overweight then using the formula 1000iu/daily for each 25lbs body weight may be more effective. Up to 10,000iu/daily is considered absolutely safe even in sunny countries.
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\r\n \r\n Is there, or no, a relation between autoimmunity and D3 ?\r\n \r\n

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People with low vitamin D status particularly in childhood are more likely to develop autoimmune conditions.
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\r\n \r\n Or, won\'t a massive dose deteriorate my health ?\r\n \r\n

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Having a low vitamin D status leaves you vulnerable to far more adverse consequences than the level human bodies evolved to function with while living near naked outdoors.
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\r\nI don\'t think such megadoses are harmfu.
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\r\nI just don\'t think they are natural or necessary.
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\r\nYour hormone system is a complex thing and full of checks and balances and large sudden changes in status lead to periods of fine tuning and adjustments in those counterbalancing actions.
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\r\nTaking a natural though highish amount of Vitamin D3, equivalent to reasonable daily sun exposure that more than covers your daily needs will lead to 25(OH)D levels rising over a fairly short period but at a rate which allows the fine tuning of the immune function to be achieved at a natural rate.
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\r\nI prefer to keep my 25(OH)D level both HIGH and STABLE that way I avoid the need for the body to adjust and creating less opportunity for periods where there is an imbalance between the pro/anti inflammatory and pro/anti proliferative forces to lead to trouble.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n Ted, the docs in India were using D3. Quite a few docs use D3 now.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n

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Ted, the docs in India were using D3. Quite a few docs use D3 now.

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It would be great if I could say the same happens in the UK. I have had several examples online of people being TOLD they were taking vitamin D3 in the USA But who when shown

an images of D2 Ergocalciferol recognize the identification numbers.

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\nD2 speeds up the turnover of VITAMIN D therefore causing more pronounced swings from high to low status and as it is more expensive and less reliable it should be avoided.
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\nPS Re Arrowsmith\'s supplementing regime 2X 50000 a month provides 3 571 daily + 5000iu/d= 8,5000iu/daily and results in a 25(OH)D around 80ng/ml. This is towards the upper end of what is natural and ideal for someone with a chronic condition but it ensures at all times the body has available immediate access to both circulation 25(OH)D and reserves of stored D3. If I had a cancer diagnosis I would keep my 25(OH)D in exactly the same range as Arrowsmith.
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\nThe megadosing regime using D3 for dealing with infections is detailed here Stoss therapy While vitamin D3 is fat soluble Vitamin C is water soluble. The halflife of vitamin d is measured in weeks the half life of Vitamin C is measured in minutes. If you want to raise circulating plasma levels of vitamin c then TIME RELEASE, SUSTAINED RELEASE or similar forms are required. 500mg sustained release vitamin c taken 6times at 4hr intervals will have more effect than 3g Vitamin C taken once daily.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n I had very low vitamin D levels when I was first tested. Exactly what I did is hard to remember now and it is posted on the forum here somewhere but it was about like this; I took 50,000 IU 3xd for 3 days then went to 50,000 one time a day for a for a total of about 2 weeksday then went to 10,000 IU for several days before I got retested. After about 3 weeks I was tested and my level was 130, originally 20 somthing.
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\nI\'ve settled on 50,000 two times a month and take 5,000 iu most days. My last two checks have been in the 70 and 90 range, which is where I prefer to keep it since I have a cancer history.
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\nIf I feel like I am getting sick I up it immediately, but I don\'t feel like that very often and have nipped it all in the bud by megadosing vitamin d and vitamin c.
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\nIodine is what you really need to look into. You should be able to get your D levels up quickely whatever way your doc decides to help you. Personally I would not go for the shot. I prefer to make shifts a little slower, and over the course of a few weeks you will be fine. In regards to iodine, Make sure you are not taking medicine for acid stomach. That can really reduce the amount of iodine you absorb from food or from supplements.. HCL is very important for the proper metabolism of iodine. It is fundamental.\r\n

mountainbikebabe

\r\n \r\n There is research out on Vitamin D and brain lesions, go to www.metametrix.com they recommend testing for D and K together. D supplementation without enough K causes brain lesions. I have found doing a UBI will cause a huge vitamin D increase but your own body is making it from the ultraviolet light.
\nI would not take vitamin D supplements without reviewing this material first.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

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\r\n Originally Posted by mountainbikebabe\r\n

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There is research out on Vitamin D and brain lesions

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The myth about Vitamin D and calcium causing brain lesions comes from this research
\nCalcium and vitamin D intakes may be positively associated with brain lesions in depressed and non-depressed elders
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\nThose who are able to read and think for themselves will soon come to the conclusion that this is a set up.
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\n The researchers have the finances available to do expensive MRI scans on the brains of these elderly people but choose to use dietary logs to work out Vitamin D and calcium status.
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\nIt\'s totally ludicrous to use diet as a measure of Vitamin D levels.
\nEveryone knows vitamin D3 is made in the skin and that is our main source, even in elderly people.
\nAlthough they don\'t make as much as younger folks, elderly people who live in the country and work in their gardens have higher levels than people the same age living and gardening, in urban environments.
\nIt isn\'t the ability of the skin or the diet that accounts for that difference but the air pollution.
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\nThe Payne research did not correct for the differences arising from urban or rural living.
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\nThe Payne research above didn\'t measure 25(OH)D3 although for research purposes the cost of 25(OH)D testing is trivial (less than $40) whereas the cost of MRI scans is in hundreds of $$.
\nIf you have some motive to want to prove higher levels of vitamin D may be dangerous then you need to do proper measurements and this Payne research failed to do that.
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\nWhen at best less than 10% of our daily vitamin D requirements could possibly come from diet (and that involves eating oily fish daily) only idiots and those with malicious intent would use a food frequency questionnaire to guess 25(OH)D status.
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\nI agree that it is worth recognising the fact that increasing vitamin D status improves the absorption of calcium and that levels above 42ng/ml are required for maximum bone mineral density. Certainly taking magnesium and vitamin K2 will assist the creation of strong bones.
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\nBut that is NOT a reason for not raising vitamin D levels.
\nCalcium is best obtained and utilized from food sources.
\nIf you want to preserve bone structure then not only do you need to increase your D3 intake (and magnesium +Vitamin K2) but you also need to cut out the sodas.
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\nThe level at which babies are born with sufficient Vitamin D status to absorb calcium in optimum amounts from their diet and obtain natural vitamin D3 from their mothers breast milk is 58.8ng/ml and that requires 6400iu/daily supplementation at latitude 32 or an equivalent amount from non burning full body exposure to UVB bearing sunlight.
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\nIf you think you know better than the hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary process found worked best then I would like to see your evidence.
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\nThis new research tells us that
\n25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 is an agonistic vitamin D receptor ligand
\nThat means vitamin D requires just one hydroxylation to be an active hormone. But it is only an active hormone when present in sufficient amounts.
\n40ng/ml is too low. 60ng/ml gives it more act in the way we evolved to function.
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\nVitamin K2 information
\nThere is good reason to say that Developmental vitamin D deficiency causes abnormal brain development\r\n

RCannon

\r\n \r\n Yes I think the answer is not to avoid supplementing with D but rather stop supplementing calcium. Is there any proof that taking calcium to raise blood levels will cause that calcium to go back into bones??? I doubt it. There is more in bones than calcium. You need magnesium and other minerals in proper balance. So if you take just calcium, and it gets absorbed, where can it go? It has to get filtered out again and it could very well cause lesions in the process. I\'m just using common sense. And if you take a lot of dairy, which is overly high in calcium, you could get lesions. Best thing is eat lots of green veggies. These are high in absorbable calcium.\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

\r\n \r\n Interesting post here at NEPHROPAL on Fructose, Vitamin D, and Calcium that confirms the points
\r\n intestinal absorption of calcium was decreased in the fructose fed rats.
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\r\nfructose load may also lower active Vitamin D levels and intestinal absorption of calcium
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\r\nmilk sugar lactose decreases intestinal absorption of calcium as well!
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\r\nhigh calcium levels in the blood stream can be detrimental\r\n

bbmartin

\r\n \r\n Information for anyone who would like some basic data on Vitamin D:
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\r\n \r\n What is vitamin D?
\n Early in the 20th century scientists discovered that rickets, a childhood disease characterized by improper bone development, could be prevented by a compound isolated from cod liver oil referred to as "fat-soluble factor D," now known as vitamin D. The vitamin was also called "calciferol," since it was found to boost calcium deposits in bone. Because vitamin D is so important in skeletal growth and strong bones, many foods are fortified with this vitamin to ensure that children obtain adequate amounts.
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\nThere are two basic types of vitamin D. Ergosterol is the basic building block of vitamin D in plants. Cholesterol is the basic building block of vitamin D in humans.
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\nWhen ultraviolet light from the sun hits the leaf of a plant, ergosterol is converted into ergocalciferol, or vitamin D2.
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\nIn just the same way, when ultraviolet light hits the cells of our skin, one form of cholesterol found in our skin cells - called 7-dehydrocholesterol - can be converted into cholecalciferol, a form of vitamin D3. \r\n \r\n

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A ton more info here: https://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=110
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\nGosh, do ya think all this "lower cholesterol" hooplah and the proliferation of cholesterol lowering statin drugs has anything to do with Vitamin D issues??
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\nCheers,
\nBB\r\n

Ted_Hutchinson

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\r\n Originally Posted by bbmartin\r\n

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Gosh, do ya think all this "lower cholesterol" hooplah and the proliferation of cholesterol lowering statin drugs has anything to do with Vitamin D issues?? Cheers,BB

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The increase in 25(OH)D level after UVB exposure was negatively correlated with baseline 25(OH)D level and positively correlated with baseline total cholesterol level
\nBasically this experiment shows that
\nthe higher your vitamin D status the less Vitamin D3 your skin makes when exposed to UVB
\n(we knew that because if people living naked outdoors kept making D3 at the same rate day after day they would get vitamin D toxicity and we wouldn\'t have survived the evolutionary process)
\nand that
\nthe higher your cholesterol level the more Vitamin D3 you make.
\n
\nSo what happens when people age and the amount of cholesterol in the skin diminishes as their skin gets thinner?
\nAs people age their skin is less able to make as much vitamin D3 (it can still makes some and there are other reasons (to do with circadian rhythm) why it\'s important for older people to get outside into the sunshine (or even bright light) regularly.
\n
\n So if you want to increase your rate of aging by speeding up the reduction in the level of cholesterol in your skin then using Statins is a good way of doing that, it will of course also reduce your natural ability to make Vitamin d3 and I\'m sure you are all aware those with the highest vitamin D3 (and cholesterol) levels live longest.\r\n

bbmartin

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Quote:

\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n

\r\n \r\n

\r\n Originally Posted by Ted_Hutchinson\r\n

\r\n

So if you want to increase your rate of aging by speeding up the reduction in the level of cholesterol in your skin then using Statins is a good way of doing that, it will of course also reduce your natural ability to make Vitamin d3 and I\'m sure you are all aware those with the highest vitamin D3 (and cholesterol) levels live longest.

\r\n \r\n

\r\n

Thanks Ted! I wasn\'t aware of that specific datum "those with the highest vitamin D3 (and cholesterol) levels live longest." but it makes sense from what I do know of cholesterol. That would make a very enlightening thread eh?
\n
\nWhen I learned that cholesterol is a vital substance that our bodies produce to protect our blood vessels and do a host of other things, and that my cholesterol used to be "too high" but I\'ve had diabetes for my whole life, then I started really suspecting the "cholesterol causes heart disease" theory.
\n
\nI realized that my body was forming cholesterol to protect my blood vessels which were weakening due to fluctuation blood sugar levels for many years.
\n
\nInterestingly, my cholesterol levels have decreased as I\'ve managed my blood sugar levels better and eaten much healthier foods.
\n
\nCheers,
\nBB\r\n

Aynurrzepa

\r\n \r\n Ji,
\n
\ni\'m new here and also looking for answers about Vit D3, MP etc. I\'m currently at antibiotic protocol for Scleroderma (diffuse form but mild, I had it over 30 years ut I\'m actually doing fine). My Vit D was very low when I started AP - 6 ng/ml (typical for "autoimmune" disease that scelroderma is) I started taking vit D3 supplements and upped my level to 12 ng/ml over 2 months with a daily dosage of 50,000 IU/day. I continued with that and after another 2 months my levels shot up to an extremely high level 1864 ng/ml! I now stopped supplementation until it\'s below 100 ng/ml but, I fell fine, never been ill in these 7 months despite people even in close circles getting colds and flus. My SD did not get worse. AP seem to work (combined with systemic enzymes) as my body and face are softening. I am now looking at MMS to replace AP with it as i like the idea that MMS only kill pathogenic microorganisms, leaving the beneficial bacteria intact which is so important. My difficulty is that here in Dubai where I live finding sodium chlorate is a challenge as is flying it in by ordering on internet due to being a hazardous material which courier companies will not touch. Any help here? ready-made MMS is also not a solution as liquids are also not allowed in courier!\r\n

seanlane

\r\n \r\n Marshall is now featured in the world renown scientist Craig Venter\'s new book~
\n
\n"Metagenomics of the Human Body"
\n
\nand is also featured in Nature publication~
\n
\nhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...H39ADRq2ZozDPg
\n
\nI can understand that much of what Trevor Marshall\'s research is based on a working knowledge of biomedical engineering that most scientist are simply ignorant about...and it is understandable that well meaning people who are not even scientists would question the protocol.
\n
\nVitamin D metabolism is very complicated, and stimulating the immune system with Benicar while inhibiting NF~kB is complicated. But throw in a million or so different genomes of bacteria that clearly change the way the immune system works, and you go on to imponderable.
\n
\nI continue to make sound progress on the MP like my doctor and many other friends on the treatment....it may not be a panacea, everybody may not completely heal....the bacteria load of some people may be to great or their body\'s are to weak to endure the immunopathology during the protocol. But I am astounded at my recovery from neuropathy,bipolar disorder, food sensitivities, chronic fatigue, psoriasis, and heart arrythmias.....all of which were caused not by low vitamin D...but by infection and dysregulation of the innate immune system caused by intraphagocytic microbiota.\r\n

pinballdoctor

\r\n \r\n I am not totally against the use of antibiotics, however, long term use concerns me because they have a dark side that will affect your health in a negative way, years or decades from now. The body is a perfect breeding ground for fungi. It is dark, moist, and the right temperature.
\n
\nI would consider using natural antibiotics such as colloidal silver, grapefruit seed extract, or even MMS before I used an antibiotic that is made from mold, which is a fungus, because in the end, if the fungal growth isn\'t stopped, they will eventually kill the host, which is you.\r\n

Arrowwind09

\r\n \r\n as pinballdoctor says these following diseases that the MP is suppose to help can all be cured with colloidal silver or MMS if administered appropriately.
\n
\n"Dr. Marshall\'s papers describe how numerous Th1 diseases such as sarcoidosis, Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (among others) are caused by Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species......"\r\n

RCannon

\r\n \r\n Regarding Mg, the time tested epsom salts are primarily magnesium sulfate, and is well absorbed.
\n
\nNot sure if this was discussed earlier but vit D needs vit A in a precise ratio, best achieved by conversion of carotenoids. Taking active vit A will upset the balance according to Dr Cannell on his vitamindcouncil.org website. Don\'t have the reference, just remember reading it.
\n
\nAlso since vit D is generated from the sun on skin, there are supposedly other forms of D formed, making the UV a better method. Also sunshine supplies IR heat, raising body temp and penetrating the body and tending to destroy bacteria etc. IR saunas are very effective at raising body temp and sweating out heavy metals etc, another source of food for some bacteria apparently. And of course exercise and circulation is very important to generate things like glutathione and get oxygen to tissues, stimulate nerves and neurogenesis etc. (Power Up your Brain book).
\n
\nNot to mention acidity- a measure of voltage basically. Need to have the minerals to increase the ph. Some say this is important in killing the pathogens and others not.\r\n

sabrato

\r\n \r\n Why did I notice, when looking at the Igenex site, that "ricketssia species other than microti " are NOT ALLOWED TO BE TOLD TO NYS\' residents>???????"
\n
\nDo they already know Q Fever is a huge epidemic there? Who restricted that???? Especially when Igenex\' tests differentiate/go more specific to ID the exact TYPE of ricketssia????
\n
\nShameful.\r\n

sabrato

\r\n \r\n Also had spotted torso/face rash week prior or two, to the bullseye rash coming out at site of sheep tick (during sheep farm vacation w/relatives)-' + '-' + '- could be a fifth called Mediterranean Spotted Fever (rickettsia) thats also at play, not much known about. Never addressed by the lyme docs, ignored that spotted rash fact, but RSMF not likely for Europe and comes back neg. appropriately. (Seems docs will only test the most outlandish non-likely things for me...parvovirus? and one out here midwest, saw the hemolytic anemia, thickening skin reminiscent of scleroderma, vit d def, and history of positive Ehrlichia PCR, YET...tried to take me back to the stone age, insisting all my lyme history (5x wb positive, rash, tick bite, 100% symptoms) -' + '- were now somehow "scleroderma"...AND...my cousins wife just died of the dooming diagnosis, more likely Ehrlichia carried to her as I lived in cousins house during onset of illness. (dishwasher present).
\n
\nANY vitamin D deficient lymies, ought to be checked for the 5 above, by DNA methods...
\nOh, afterthought....one after another of TBI\'s "pop out" after treating lyme, for this reason:
\nIt used to be thought firmly, "a person can only have one infection of bacteria, at a time", because....
\nthey would only see ONE antibody, and end the quest at that point.
\nONLY after treating the one youre fighting, does your immune system reset, to attack number 2. And so on.
\nImmune systems, are like burglar or motion alarms....the FIRST of any multiple bacteria inserted by a tick, mosquito, etc -' + '- is the one your body fights. It is NOT designed to see more than one. Its also a huge strain on the system. So, when you relieve the body of the lyme fight, it has a chance to notice the next invader....treat it, and the next crops out. This is how it goes - it is not an accident, and all MD\'s who believe negative = word of god not there, are foolishly ignorant.

\r\n

sabrato

\r\n \r\n European case studies on ricketssias, have noticed patients having 3 or more at once of ricketssial species. Since all these TBI\'s, virtually, are "cell wall deficient" ie not a virus, not a walled bacteria like the norm, but an intermediate oddity with no cell wall of it\'s very own, moving into YOUR cells instead....they hide at all times from blood tests/antibody fight tests, EXCEPT when they are reproducing and migrating to new cells for the offspring -' + '- blood tests cant spot unless WHOLE blood is used and they happen to live in the white/red/platelets etc -' + '- antibody tests seem to be invented by those profiting off the wrong results given to patients -' + '- and much wrong band-aid style treatment and "old" condition names (all of which are incurable, how lucrative is that?) -' + '- DNA tests MUST be invented to include European strains, as even canada recognizes strains not native here, being brought in by migrating BIRDS -' + '- if anything, the strains "not native" here, are simply not being looked for, because of CDC misinformation.
\n
\nExample: son TWICE in O Midwest state, contracted lyme bullseye + ehrlichia stretchmarks, rash, etc from MOSQUITO bites -' + '- dx\'d at two different HOSPITALS -' + '- not reported. I reported personally to CDC with dates, locations, doc names, etc -' + '- still "O state has no lyme" as the official report! This both in 2000, and 2010. (Is lyme a hated enemy to the medical community here?) Referral, to a hospital which treated me decade ago for lyme, referred for the positive ehrlichia w/o treatment, was REFUSED, because "I\'d been seen for lyme 10 years ago" -' + '- lyme is not ehrlichia! Amazing outright REFUSAL (dx was another state, for the Ehrlichia) -' + '- to admit lyme has coinfections.
\n
\nThe guy in West Coast, who saw the Ehrlichia PCR, was running an MS/Cystic Fibrosis clinic, and tried to "rename" my lyme to the two of them -' + '- CF is genetic!! Who does he think he was getting over on? Where are all the advisories to the MS patients, that Europe discovered it gets better with antibiotics?? (its lyme et al) BBC published that 12 years ago - the NY Times apparently "forgot" to let us know...and whats with the Nicholson mycoplasma discovery being hushed from last year? Corruption at its very worst.
\n
\nDocs: forget your phobia over "oh no, we misdiagnosed" -' + '- the LAB COMPANIES are at fault for peddling antibody tests that DO NOT WORK -' + '- if they told YOU, negative, and it was a lie, and the test is garbage, the fault rests on THEM, not your following their info. Docs need to stop letting these "other condition" victims with TBI\'s, die, and fix that, its beyond unethical, its murder.\r\n

sabrato

\r\n \r\n The lyme et al =MS, published by BBC so long ago, was followed by Bowen test confirming that in USA -' + '- lyme was most likely the "plague" of middle ages (no rashes known in plague" -' + '- its preserved in the "ring around the rosie" rhyme -' + '- (ashes ashes, we all fall down, carry the pocket full of posies as an amulet to ward off plague ) -' + '- we ALL have some degree of antibody to it, because those who lived THRU the plague, recovered, and at that time, Europe was NEVER exposed to it before -' + '- same reaction today with some populaces ACUTE from initial lyme, and euro\'s "vaguely/chronically" more slowly ill -' + '-
\nDid anyone else notice, how within a month or 2 of Bowen results "yes, lyme causes alzheimers and MS" -' + '- docs petitioned congress for a "no sue me" bill, fearing malpractice suits (over the MS people etc being told wrong prognosis/no knowledge abx would cure etc) -' + '-
\nLike I said, docs, THE PHARMACOLOGIC companies are at fault, that ever peddled and still do, those garbage antibody tests, and that cannot be your fault, for following their guidance in the tests. THEY need to take the brunt, and patients with those 2 ailments (and more, scleroderma) need to be cured. EVERYONE has the right to live, and it outweighs your own pocketbooks and legal phobias! For shame, that docs care more for their rich lifestyle, than to help others, which is what doctoring is supposed to be all about!
\n
\nHope someone else is helped by the above info, I have learned a ton during this downhill rollercoaster ride of TBI\'s and have read up for 20+ years now, with 3 docs in my own family and was to be my own career, except lyme struck.\r\n

shapshftr · ï¿½ #1 ï¿½ 03-27-2007, 04:08 AM

Don't know if any of you have heard of this protocol before, but in my opinion, it is ridiculous and dangerous. Risks quoted from link below include:

Major risk of Addison Syndrome (5%-25% of CFS that complete the protocol)
Increased risk (100 300%) of Heart Attack
Increased risk (100+%) of Cancer (Breast, Colon and Prostate are well documented)
Increased risk (67+%) of Multiple Sclerosis
Increased risk (400+%) of Diabetes
Increased risk of Depression
Increased risk (500+%) of Osteoarthritis and Osteoporosis
Increased risk of nephrotic syndrome, schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder.
Increased risk of Hyperparathyroidism
Increased risk of Crohn Disease and Sjogren's syndrome
Increased risk of Rheumatoid Arthritis
Increased risk of Systemic Lupus Erythematosus
May cause fetal and neonatal morbidity and death
Risk of Angioedema

________________________________________

"The Marshall Protocol was developed by Trevor Marshall, PhD, in 2002 to treat certain diseases that involve Th1 immune system dysfunction.

Dr. Marshall's papers describe how numerous Th1 diseases such as sarcoidosis, Lyme disease, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis (among others) are caused by Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacteria of various species......

An essential part of the Marshall Protocol is avoidance foods and vitamin supplements containing vitamin D to reduce the level of this hormone which suppresses the immune system......

A key part of the protocol is the establishment of an inflammatory blockade of the hormone Angiotensin II with an Angiotensin Receptor Blocker (ARB), Benicar (olmesartan medoxomil).

The protocol also includes the introduction of carefully, selected low dose antibiotics in a pulsed schedule"......

https://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/364.html

"Ingested Vitamin D is an immune-suppressant, similar to the function that prednisone performs. Ingested Vitamin D suppresses the action of the VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) and thus turns-off the immune system's Th1 response so it cannot fight the intra-phagocytic bacteria. People feel better in the short-term, but will succumb to the infection more rapidly in the long-run"......

https://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/4062.html

"The MP coordinates the use of Benicar (Olmesartan medoxomil), and specific, pulsed, low-dose, bacteriostatic, oral antibiotics to enable the immune system to destroy the persistent bacteria [5]. Correctly dosed, Benicar reduces inflammatory cytokine production by blocking the angiotensin II, type I receptors to inhibit, inter alia, the release of tumor necrosis factor-alpha during the Th1 immune reaction"......

https://autoimmunityresearch.org/phase1.pdf

________________________________________

This treatment protocol goes against so many known facts about the importance of Vitamin D it's not even funny. I also do not believe that Vitamin D suppresses the immune system. I wondered what Dr Paul Cheney, who has done much research on CFIDS, Fibro and other such ailments would have to say about this protocol. I found the answer to that.... he seems to be very much against it.

________________________________________

Dr Cheney, MD, writes:

"I'm concerned that an ARB (Angiotensin Receptor Blocker) is being used in CFIDS patients [via MarshallProtocol.com] without an awareness of its effect on "Q."

Big issue [with MarshallProtocol.com]! If you block AT1 with an ARB [like Benicar], down will go your Aldosterone, and down will go your blood volume, and you could be in a heap of trouble [i.e. Addison Syndrome]. ARBs that bind to AT1 will constrict blood volume [which is unhealthy with PWCs].

I'm also concerned that the other receptor [AT2] is being ignored. No one knows what it does. Not even Merck! I suspect that it has an immune effect. An ARB like Benicar selectively binds very tightly to AT1, resulting in a two—to three-fold increase of Angiotensin II, which then binds to the wide-open AT2 receptor. And who knows what kind of immune responses that is setting off. This is just speculation, but I am concerned [over the safe use of Benicar for CFS].

"I don't believe that you can block a regulatory pathway [with Benicar],..... you[MarshallProtocol.com] have no idea what that thing is doing and then hope that down the road everything will be rosy."

________________________________________

Go to the following link to read the bizarre quotes of this Dr Marshall and a nurse on his forum, dodging the question of possible risks of using his protocol, and some facts and links regarding the importance of Vitamin D:

https://lassesen.com/cfids/MarshallProtocolRisks.htm

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