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Old 03-12-2011, 12:46 AM
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Default How to help people who are stuck in the western medical system?

This has been a big question for me over the past year.. for the most part I completely disagree with the way the western medical system views and treats disease.. I believe most pharmaceutical drugs cause more problems then they fix.. ive seen it first hand and experienced it myself.

Ive been learning a huge amount about health. healing over the past 2 years.. I believe I know quite a lot at this point and could help an average person increase there health.

However it seems many average people are not open to hearing my advice, and think I am being condescending or telling them how to live there lives when all I am trying to do is help them..

Even family members and very close friends have been really offended or frustrated with me giving them advice. Clearly I am not coming across in the right way, and it pains me to see these people still stuck in the western system being loaded up on various hard pharma drugs which are destroying there health.

How can I/We get across to people like this? Who still believe completely in the western system and believe they are stuck with there "incurable" conditions?? Most importantly how do we help them see a better way without scaring them off or having them think we are trying to control them or tell them what to do , or follow some "mumbo jumbo" system they think is a joke?

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Old 03-12-2011, 05:34 AM
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I don't try convince anyone. It is something that a person has to come to realize on there own. Usually when they are not getting results for whatever reason, from their health care providers. At least that was the case for myself.

Until that time comes, no one wants to beleive that the health care system is not the "best in the world" as politicians often state. It is the best in the world in some narrow specialties, but certainly not in treatment of most disease.

It is discomforting to most everyone to think that there is fraud in our current health care system. Everyone can point to these quack treatments of the past and think "boy am I glad we are so much more advanced today".

What never seems to occur to people is that fraud has always been a part of health care, and will likely always be part of it. People have not changed, and making lots of money is still as motivating as it ever was. If you can sell a bad idea for a profit, it will be done today, as it was yesterday. It is done in a much more convincing way today, but fraud exists just as it always has, and always will. It is not isolated to conventional medicine, but alternative medicine as well.

It is hard to bring anyone to an uncomfortable truth, until they are forced to accept it. It is not something anyone wants to hear.

I do not try to convince anyone of anything, but if they ask for my opinion of what I would do, I will tell them. It is up to them to make the decision, not me.

Dan
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:11 AM
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Old 03-12-2011, 08:58 AM
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Both of you are so right.. ha.. one of the main reasons im bringing this up is because I was going out with this girl for a couple years, and she's been diagnosed with rhematoid arthrtitis and bipolar / depressoin etc, so she was literally on like 10 different pharma drugs + getting "infusions" of hardcore autoimmune drugs.. Her arthritis doc put her on one med after another after each one didnt work quite right, and each one when looked up has terrible side effects and could even kill you.. she never put much thought into what she ate, I tried to tell her diet could really help her, but she would get really defensive and think I was telling her what to do.. so she continued to eat lots of sugar, processed food, etc. and these drugs she was on caused all kinds of side effects, heart burn, skin problems, night sweats, etc. and then she was put on medications to treat the side effects, a heart burn med etc. and towards the end of our relationship I voiced my opinion more.. but not in the right way I guess.. I was like 'your taking a heartburn med now too?!' and I think it made her feel bad.. like I didnt think she was smart or she was causing these problems herself or something I duno.. Anyway, she ended up breaking up with me partially because of this issue, her feeling like I was telling her how to live her life etc.

Then I here from her the other day after many months of not talking, turns out shes just been diagnosed with Lupus in addition to arthritis and just started a new hardcore drug for that..

So things seem to be getting worse over time as exptected. Shes a vet, and believes that she practices western medicine (w animals) and so for some reason she cant seperate the two in her mind (human/animal) and thinks that she would be giving up on her belief/career if she were to give up on her western docs.. thats my take on it.

And she really believes these docs are helping her? Not only have they caused many many side effects, probably long term damage to her body, a new diagnosis of Lupus, but it all costs 10's of thousands of dollars. Sounds like a great system to me!

Its just hard for me to sit on the sidelines and watch a smart, beautiful young girl (24) have her health be completely ruined because she will not open her mind to another way. She's very stubborn though, and thats what worries me.. I literally dont know if she will ever get it or see the other side of things.. I mean, if she cant see that the way shes been doing this up to now isnt working I dont know what will.

When we used to argue/talk about it, she would say that, her beliefs are supported by "science" and that alternative medicine isnt, etc.. she only believes in things that have a scientific basis.

It sucks because, I honestly believe if she would listen to everything I say, she could be pretty healthy within a year.. I believe autoimmune diseases can be cured with correct diet, herbs, lifestyle. I also dont believe in telling people they have 2 different auto-immune diseases, its the same condition! Its just causing different symptoms. I believe most auto-immune diseases orgininate in the digestive system.. its undigested food particles = toxins which get carried around the body, lodge in tissues, the body develops anti-bodies which attack them causing all the sypmtoms, then the docs give you drugs which further damage your digestive system, ant-acids for heartburn there meds gave you which lowers stomach acid even more, further reducing the digestive system which makes the problem worse = more diagnoses.

/rant
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Old 03-12-2011, 09:17 AM
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A lot of it boils down to the simple concept of if it is not working for you, try something else.

It is not that hard to understand, or unreasonable, or complicated. It is common sense.

Dan
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Old 03-12-2011, 06:28 PM
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Alternative medicine is now supported by science also. Lots of studies are done. It all depends on where to go to read..

get her a subscription to the Townsend Letter. and there are many studies in Pubmed on alternative this and that.

But really, she has a lot invested in her ego. She may never open her mind, she may never get well. Obviously her life and the choices she has made has made her go crazy.

The very best thing you can do is pray for her... seriously.
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Old 03-12-2011, 07:11 PM
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I know exactly how you feel moxsum. I can't even talk to my family about alternative treatments, they just shut their brain down as soon as I start to mention it. I am not going to mention specifics, but I have close ones that I am afraid are heading down a road that you and me both know where it leads. As you said, I took think diet could save them.
Its wierd how people don't see the conection between diet and health. When I read this stuff, it just seems to make sence.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jofus View Post
I know exactly how you feel moxsum. I can't even talk to my family about alternative treatments, they just shut their brain down as soon as I start to mention it. I am not going to mention specifics, but I have close ones that I am afraid are heading down a road that you and me both know where it leads. As you said, I took think diet could save them.
Its wierd how people don't see the conection between diet and health. When I read this stuff, it just seems to make sence.

I really hate when people are so closed minded. I have one cousin who yells and screams and freaks out if I give my aunt or uncle a vitamin or herb. And I mean she gets nasty. Too many people out there that think doctors are gods and are always right. My cousin is totally cool if I make her parents a cake with natural ingredients/ coconut oil, whole grains etc or make salsa with turmeric in it, but to give capsule of turmeric would be a no no.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:57 AM
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Another thing I noticed: friends who are open minded (and I have very few that are) are very open to alternative medicine, even to the point where they say to hell with the doctors. here are a couple of my successes with friends who were open minded:

1) Friend had a bad result on a pap smear. She started taking 800 mcg folic twice a day and a high dose B-12 tablet once a week and Vit A 10,000 IU. Next test was good.

2) Friend had stomach issues and went to the doctor who said he had no problems: He started taking O'Hiras and was improved in 2 weeks.

3) Friend had migraines, started her on magnesium, while she was on it she had no migraines.

Another STRONG correlation I have noticed, but this is western PA northeast OH and may not apply to the west or far east coast or mid midwest. People who are closed minded about ethnic foods tend to be closed minded about alternative medicine.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved1986 View Post
People who are closed minded about ethnic foods tend to be closed minded about alternative medicine.
Hah! Thats so true. This girl was not very open to ethnic foods either, at least initially, didnt want to get indian food etc..

Thats what bothered me the most though, was just feeling like she wasnt open to the idea.. not like she has to follow my way, but at least consider it and try it out once or something?

Im a very open minded person.. I pride myself on that.. even if ive been doing something for a long time, if my opinion changes and I realise it is wrong, I will stop right away..

One thing I learned for sure though, you cant push people to follow your belief. I think the best way is to follow your own advice, live a healthy life, and then when people around you have health issues, hopefully they will ask for your advice, then you can help them. Some people dont want help.
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:51 AM
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Moxsum, I love indian food. But I have closed minded friends who shrug at the suggestion (I also have open minded friends who love the stuff). I have a friend in Cleveland and my best friend's hubby in the akron area are exactly the same. They will not even do a mexican restaurant, but if they go out for bar foods it quesadillas!
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxsum View Post
This has been a big question for me over the past year.. for the most part I completely disagree with the way the western medical system views and treats disease.. I believe most pharmaceutical drugs cause more problems then they fix.. ive seen it first hand and experienced it myself.

Ive been learning a huge amount about health. healing over the past 2 years.. I believe I know quite a lot at this point and could help an average person increase there health.

However it seems many average people are not open to hearing my advice, and think I am being condescending or telling them how to live there lives when all I am trying to do is help them..

Even family members and very close friends have been really offended or frustrated with me giving them advice. Clearly I am not coming across in the right way, and it pains me to see these people still stuck in the western system being loaded up on various hard pharma drugs which are destroying there health.

How can I/We get across to people like this? Who still believe completely in the western system and believe they are stuck with there "incurable" conditions?? Most importantly how do we help them see a better way without scaring them off or having them think we are trying to control them or tell them what to do , or follow some "mumbo jumbo" system they think is a joke?
but which guy wouldn't want to get some viagra?
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