Why Insurance and Health Care is SO EXPENSIVE!

[Mad Scientest]

\r\n \r\n Greed what greed I�m sure that Hemlesy is out there every day just working his fingers to the bone to provide the every best health coverage money can buy and you begrudge him his salary of a mere $102,000 per hour. I bet the average person has no idea of what is like to have to try and survive on only $102,000 per hour.\r\n

[u&iraok]

\r\n \r\n What does someone do with $102,000 an hour, seriously? Buy two yachts a day and then buy a marina to put them in? Buy 6 airplanes a year and buy a hanger to put them in? Have 10 houses and hire 40 people for their upkeep? Have an out of control stock portfolio with money and investments everywhere? Have managers to manage my managers and worry which ones aren\'t doing their job right? You\'re right, I couldn\'t survive on $102,000 an hour, I\'d go nuts trying to deal with all my stuff and the stuff that goes along with having so much stuff.\r\n

[limitme]

\r\n \r\n Greed is extremely general. You need to know what the actual cause is. Who is greedy? Healthcare companies? Politicians who help to write pass the bills that are friends with people in the healthcare companies? Hospital CEOs? Insurance CEOs? The average person? The truth is, we are all greedy. We all want. We all want more and that is perfectly fine. We all want as much as we can get for ourselves and family. And that is perfectly fine. We all want to create as much wealth for ourselves as we possibly can, so we can do whatever we please with that wealth. That is perfectly fine.
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\nWhat is not fine is trespassing against someone else\'s life, liberty or property to get that wealth.
\n
\nWe all need to wake up to this one simple fact:
\nOnly government can trespass against our life, liberty and property (publicly and out in the open). Only government can take these things away from us using force (publicly and out in the open). So, save yourself some time and look at the ways government has done this.
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\nIt is government that has distorted the healthcare market. It is government that allows corporations to have advantages that small businesses do not have. It is government that has forced this healthcare system upon us. If you stop and think about it, that is the only option that makes any sense. Only government could force people to pay for "managed" healthcare. No corporation could every force people to buy their product. So, instead, they use government to force people to buy their product. This is fascism. When governments and corporations work together to take advantage of the people.
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\nTake that knife and move it away from these big insurance companies, and put the knife where it belongs. Right at the heart of government. Our government forced HMO\'s on everybody when they passed the HMO act in the 70\'s. What was the result? Tons of people were suddenly buying products they didn\'t necessarily want. Tons of money went into the health industry. Money that the free market would never have put into that industry. With all that money came more government regulation of this huge industry. Since everyone had to buy health insurance, they started using it for their regular doctor visits. Along with that, you have government using more resources and putting it into medicaid and medicare, which got even more people into using HMO style healthcare. All this usage drives the price up and up and up. Was the free market to blame? Of course not, it would have never put all those resources into HMO style healthcare.
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\nAre the insurance companies and healthcare companies benefiting? Of course. And I\'m sure, many lobbied and helped and still help come up with all the regulations that are passed and forced upon us. Do alot of these regulations help to keep their competitors at a disadvantage, I\'m sure they do.
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\nIs the answer to get rid of the insurance companies and healthcare companies? No. New companies will come in to take advantage of the people using the help of the government, or, the government will simply takeover the industry altogether and nationalize it.
\n
\nthe solution is to get rid of the government that allowed this to happen. If you don\'t have the backbone to to that, you have to at least get rid of the regulations and repeal all these acts that ruined healthcare, like the HMO act.\r\n

[Arrowwind09]

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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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The average person? The truth is, we are all greedy. We all want. We all want more and that is perfectly fine. We all want as much as we can get for ourselves and family. And that is perfectly fine. We all want to create as much wealth for ourselves as we possibly can, so we can do whatever we please with that wealth. That is perfectly fine.
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\nWhat is not fine is trespassing against someone else\'s life, liberty or property to get that wealth.
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\n.

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Although I agree that government has made much of the problem I still see greed as a factor. How can someone possibly take in 102,000 an hour while at the same time knowing that people are dying and being denied healthcare. This is a very dark dark consciousness. It is the ultimate in greed and I certainly could not do it and live with myself. They have used the government to take the people for a ride. Just because the government set up the rules where it is possible to do this does not make it ethical and moral. Corporations by and large back unethical and immoral acts time and time again, and I can only assume that the people who run them are unethical and immoral. Just because the devil says you can sin does not mean that you should and that you must.\r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n \r\n

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Although I agree that government has made much of the problem I still see greed as a factor. How can someone possibly take in 102,000 an hour while at the same time knowing that people are dying and being denied healthcare. This is a very dark dark consciousness. It is the ultimate in greed and I certainly could not do it and live with myself. They have used the government to take the people for a ride. Just because the government set up the rules where it is possible to do this does not make it ethical and moral. Corporations by and large back unethical and immoral acts time and time again, and I can only assume that the people who run them are unethical and immoral. Just because the devil says you can sin does not mean that you should and that you must.

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that is true. I\'m sure there are plenty of people on the top going way overboard.\r\n

[jfh]

\r\n \r\n I\'m so disgusted with health insurance and the doctors who abuse it. I can\'t wait until I\'m old enough for medicare in 2 years.
\n
\nI went to an Ear Nose Throat doc early this year to try to figure out what is going on with my sinuses. My last visit with her was simple. She sprayed lidocaine up my nose to dilate it. Then looked up there with an instrument and declared it clear of fungus. Yes. Laughable. She charged the insurance $280 for that one last visit and recorded it as "surgery". Of course, I had to pay it, because I have $5000 deductible. So she did not screw the insurance company - only me.\r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n \r\n

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Although I agree that government has made much of the problem I still see greed as a factor. How can someone possibly take in 102,000 an hour while at the same time knowing that people are dying and being denied healthcare. This is a very dark dark consciousness. It is the ultimate in greed and I certainly could not do it and live with myself. They have used the government to take the people for a ride. Just because the government set up the rules where it is possible to do this does not make it ethical and moral. Corporations by and large back unethical and immoral acts time and time again, and I can only assume that the people who run them are unethical and immoral. Just because the devil says you can sin does not mean that you should and that you must.

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i guess my point was, there would not be anyone making that kind of money without government intervention in the first place.\r\n

[grandmaflorist]

\r\n \r\n This surprises me as some of the healthiest people I know are not on health care. They do what it takes to stay healthy (those I know) and when they truely need wellness, like dental, when their income is too low, they get hugh brakes or family help.
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\nIn fact from Christians to the elderly, if the insurance doesn\'t cover it - they don\'t buy it. How have we come this far to think others are responsible for our decisions?
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\nTalk about greed, those companies would not have that kind of money rolling in if everyone was not operating in fear. Having insurance with the highest deductible has made people work to study and stay well.
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\nIf we help anyone with anything, it should be helping people who really do not money for food get off the meds so they can spend their tiny incomes on healthy items. Pick out some and put a sack of healthy items on their porches when no one is looking or give to a local church who supplies these items. What we do for others comes back to us as a promise.\r\n

[Solstice Goat]

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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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i guess my point was, there would not be anyone making that kind of money without government intervention in the first place.

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True. Employer provided healthcare was a result of wage fixing by the gov. during WWII to try and grease the skids for the imperial war machine. Once everyone was using OPM for the doctor visits, guess what happened to pricing?\r\n

[Cookie]

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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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Greed is extremely general. You need to know what the actual cause is. Who is greedy? Healthcare companies? Politicians who help to write pass the bills that are friends with people in the healthcare companies? Hospital CEOs? Insurance CEOs? The average person? The truth is, we are all greedy. We all want. We all want more and that is perfectly fine. We all want as much as we can get for ourselves and family. And that is perfectly fine. We all want to create as much wealth for ourselves as we possibly can, so we can do whatever we please with that wealth. That is perfectly fine.
\n
\nWhat is not fine is trespassing against someone else\'s life, liberty or property to get that wealth.
\n
\nWe all need to wake up to this one simple fact:
\nOnly government can trespass against our life, liberty and property (publicly and out in the open). Only government can take these things away from us using force (publicly and out in the open). So, save yourself some time and look at the ways government has done this.
\n
\nIt is government that has distorted the healthcare market. It is government that allows corporations to have advantages that small businesses do not have. It is government that has forced this healthcare system upon us. If you stop and think about it, that is the only option that makes any sense. Only government could force people to pay for "managed" healthcare. No corporation could every force people to buy their product. So, instead, they use government to force people to buy their product. This is fascism. When governments and corporations work together to take advantage of the people.
\n
\nTake that knife and move it away from these big insurance companies, and put the knife where it belongs. Right at the heart of government. Our government forced HMO\'s on everybody when they passed the HMO act in the 70\'s. What was the result? Tons of people were suddenly buying products they didn\'t necessarily want. Tons of money went into the health industry. Money that the free market would never have put into that industry. With all that money came more government regulation of this huge industry. Since everyone had to buy health insurance, they started using it for their regular doctor visits. Along with that, you have government using more resources and putting it into medicaid and medicare, which got even more people into using HMO style healthcare. All this usage drives the price up and up and up. Was the free market to blame? Of course not, it would have never put all those resources into HMO style healthcare.
\n
\nAre the insurance companies and healthcare companies benefiting? Of course. And I\'m sure, many lobbied and helped and still help come up with all the regulations that are passed and forced upon us. Do alot of these regulations help to keep their competitors at a disadvantage, I\'m sure they do.
\n
\nIs the answer to get rid of the insurance companies and healthcare companies? No. New companies will come in to take advantage of the people using the help of the government, or, the government will simply takeover the industry altogether and nationalize it.
\n
\nthe solution is to get rid of the government that allowed this to happen. If you don\'t have the backbone to to that, you have to at least get rid of the regulations and repeal all these acts that ruined healthcare, like the HMO act.

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\nVery nicely written!
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\nI don\'t know exactly how Medicare works yet, but what about something like single payer Medicare across the board?
\nWe could save billions & billions yearly by eliminating megacorp insurance vendors, but *sigh* our governmental officials would lose all that bribe money.... \r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Cookie\r\n \r\n

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Very nicely written!
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\nI don\'t know exactly how Medicare works yet, but what about something like single payer Medicare across the board?
\nWe could save billions & billions yearly by eliminating megacorp insurance vendors, but *sigh* our governmental officials would lose all that bribe money....

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A single payer system is just a fancy, sleazy way of saying government monopoly.
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\nMonopolies always give you worse service. Especially when they are government controlled.
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\nGovernment helped created our horrible healthcare system and made it super expensive, so why would you want them to "fix it"?\r\n

[Arrowwind09]

\r\n \r\n From Christians to the elderly?
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\nWhat the heck does that mean?
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\nI am neither christian nor elderly and I pay out of pocket and expect no one to cover my ass. There are millions just like me.\r\n

[grandmaflorist]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Arrowwind09\r\n \r\n

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From Christians to the elderly?
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\nWhat the heck does that mean?
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\nI am neither christian nor elderly and I pay out of pocket and expect no one to cover my ass. There are millions just like me.

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These are some of my circle of friends so that is why I said that.
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\nIt has surprised me that Christian friends say their insurance does not pay for alternative and the medication is paid for so they - even knowing it will one day cause problems, they continue down that road instead of wellness.
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\nI just about fell off my chair when one said "What will I do if I get well and get off SSI" This is not a close friend but have been totally surprised.
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\nPaul Harvey once said our town has the highest cancer rate per capita of any other town in the nation. So we have a lot of sick people.
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\nAnd Arrowwind09 I do not care if someone is making 102,000 an hour or a million unless they are cheating someone. Or the government is working with big business that gives them money for elections trying to pass laws to stop completion - like they are doing to the small farmer. In fact, if you were to come up with a discovery that made you rich - I would not be jealous like those wall street goofs - I would hope you knew how to spend it and use it for good.
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\nAnother thing, no one is forcing you to buy insurance yet. From what I\'ve read, you would not want to go to a doctor or hospital anyway, except for accidents. Am I right?\r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by grandmaflorist\r\n \r\n

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These are some of my circle of friends so that is why I said that.
\n
\nIt has surprised me that Christian friends say their insurance does not pay for alternative and the medication is paid for so they - even knowing it will one day cause problems, they continue down that road instead of wellness.
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\nI just about fell off my chair when one said "What will I do if I get well and get off SSI" This is not a close friend but have been totally surprised.
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\nPaul Harvey once said our town has the highest cancer rate per capita of any other town in the nation. So we have a lot of sick people.
\n
\nAnd Arrowwind09 I do not care if someone is making 102,000 an hour or a million unless they are cheating someone. Or the government is working with big business that gives them money for elections trying to pass laws to stop completion - like they are doing to the small farmer. In fact, if you were to come up with a discovery that made you rich - I would not be jealous like those wall street goofs - I would hope you knew how to spend it and use it for good.
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\nAnother thing, no one is forcing you to buy insurance yet. From what I\'ve read, you would not want to go to a doctor or hospital anyway, except for accidents. Am I right?

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Technically, that is not correct, the HMO act forces certain businesses that meet the criteria to provide "managed healthcare" to their employees. Of course, "managed healthcare" as defined by politicians and insurance company lobbyist. They are forcing us to buy their product. HMOs have been forced on us by the government, which in turn shot up the cost of healthcare to crazy levels.\r\n

[ChrisCarlton67]

\r\n \r\n I am greatly interested in how Japan manages their healthcare system. While I do not pretend to know all the facts, from what I do understand, their prices are controlled by a government or independant body. A committee will routinely review the prices set for procedures and document everything. Comparison: An MRI there may cost $120, but an MRI in the states can cost you $10k.
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\nNo system is ever perfect. Their doctors aren\'t rolling around in BMWs..... but, I think the profession is also looked at differently. A healer, that holds respect in the community... not someone who prescribes you dozens of pills.\r\n

[Cookie]

\r\n \r\n That\'s true, but what if a non-governmental group organized a new (single payer) system. I wonder if that could work.
\nDeductions from our paychecks don\'t all go to the same place as it is.. Funds would have to come from the government, but it could be in the same catagory as how they budget/promise billions & billions of dollars to go toward overseas humanitarian aid.
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[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Cookie\r\n \r\n

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That\'s true, but what if a non-governmental group organized a new (single payer) system. I wonder if that could work.
\nDeductions from our paychecks don\'t all go to the same place as it is.. Funds would have to come from the government, but it could be in the same catagory as how they budget/promise billions & billions of dollars to go toward overseas humanitarian aid.

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By single payer, I think you mean monopoly. This may be new information to some of you, but monopolies can only exist with government. So, a non-government organization could not create a monopoly. I know this sounds a little strange to some of you, because you were taught the exact opposite in school.
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\nhttps://mises.org/community/forums/p/25081/425498.aspx
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\nMedicine and healthcare cost plummet without government interference.
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\n[edit]
\nActually, going back and reading your post, what you are describing is a government controlled monopoly.
\n"Funds would have to come from the government,"\r\n

[Cookie]

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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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By single payer, I think you mean monopoly. This may be new information to some of you, but monopolies can only exist with government. So, a non-government organization could not create a monopoly. I know this sounds a little strange to some of you, because you were taught the exact opposite in school.
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\nhttps://mises.org/community/forums/p/25081/425498.aspx

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\nGood info, thank you.
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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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Medicine and healthcare cost plummet without government interference.
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\n[edit]
\nActually, going back and reading your post, what you are describing is a government controlled monopoly.
\n"Funds would have to come from the government,"

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Yes & no.. I see how that\'s reading now.. see if I can clarify what\'s going through my head. What I should have researched is how overseas humanitarian aid is classified.. is it considered a governmental monopoly?
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\nOkay, a healthcare deduction across the board from paychecks into the new health system. And funds provided by the government (rather than sending those billions of dollars overseas) in the form of a humanitarian aid to our own citizens who are not contributing to the new system through a paycheck.
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\nThat idea\'s squashed anyway because now I\'ve learned we can\'t start a non-governmental monopoly \r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Cookie\r\n \r\n

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\nThat idea\'s squashed anyway because now I\'ve learned we can\'t start a non-governmental monopoly

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lol.
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\nIt sounds like what you want is for the government to force everyone to pay into a health insurance system.
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\nWe have that right now. The HMO Act is that. It forced health insurance companies on almost everyone. It worked out horribly. And still does.
\n
\nMix in:
\ngovernment regulation that prevents merchants from selling drugs without government permission (prescriptions) - this has lead to low supply and high demand (both of which have skyrocketed the price of drugs).
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\nMix in IP laws: keeps competition out - leads to even higher drug prices
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\nGovernment does all the wrong things. But people mean well.
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\nUsing force against people and theft will always give you bad results.
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\nWe need to relearn what freedom is and how it works and why it works.\r\n

[Cookie]

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\r\n Originally Posted by limitme\r\n \r\n

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lol.
\n
\nIt sounds like what you want is for the government to force everyone to pay into a health insurance system.
\n
\nWe have that right now. The HMO Act is that. It forced health insurance companies on almost everyone. It worked out horribly. And still does.
\n
\nMix in:
\ngovernment regulation that prevents merchants from selling drugs without government permission (prescriptions) - this has lead to low supply and high demand (both of which have skyrocketed the price of drugs).
\n
\nMix in IP laws: keeps competition out - leads to even higher drug prices
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\nGovernment does all the wrong things. But people mean well.
\n
\nUsing force against people and theft will always give you bad results.
\n
\n
\nWe need to relearn what freedom is and how it works and why it works.

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No matter how well I have it figured out in my head, it doesn\'t transition correctly into the written word. Guess it\'s more difficult to come up with a new system than I initially thought. \r\n

[limitme]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Cookie\r\n \r\n

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No matter how well I have it figured out in my head, it doesn\'t transition correctly into the written word. Guess it\'s more difficult to come up with a new system than I initially thought.

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People will probably disagree, but the perfect system is total freedom. We will always find the best way to take care of ourselves and other people. We will find the best solutions. Government will get in the way and restrict our acts, which always cause problems, shortages, and all sorts of unexpected and bizarre behaviors.
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\nTotal free markets will lower cost as low as possible and will meet customer demand as best as possible. Until people realize why this is true, then we will be stuck.\r\n

[Peetter123]

\r\n \r\n hi everybody,
\r\n
\r\ni wanted to know why this health insurance is important and why it is so expensive?\r\n

[Mad Scientest]

\r\n \r\n The health care system was written and designed, by and for the insurance companies. What better way to get people to buy your product then by forcing everyone, through government, to buy it?\r\n

[Cookie]

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\r\n Originally Posted by Peetter123\r\n \r\n

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hi everybody,
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\ni wanted to know why this health insurance is important and why it is so expensive?

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The reason it is important to me isn\'t for the piddly stuff, it\'s to cover hospital costs that could zoom up in the hundred thousands within minutes if I say break my hip falling off a ladder.
\nCurrently I have no insurance. My employer decided to cut the hours from full time to part time in several departments at work so we all lost 2-3 weeks vacation time, 13 holidays, 6 sick days, 6 bonus days, medical & life insurance.
\nWe were all hired with that package, but they had to cut costs.. \r\n

[limitme]

Originally Posted by Cookie

No matter how well I have it figured out in my head, it doesn't transition correctly into the written word. Guess it's more difficult to come up with a new system than I initially thought.

People will probably disagree, but the perfect system is total freedom. We will always find the best way to take care of ourselves and other people. We will find the best solutions. Government will get in the way and restrict our acts, which always cause problems, shortages, and all sorts of unexpected and bizarre behaviors.

Total free markets will lower cost as low as possible and will meet customer demand as best as possible. Until people realize why this is true, then we will be stuck.