P.S

I am typically a hard core athlete – like 5-6 times a week of EXHAUSTING judo….had to give that up just before the infection cuz I torqued my neck really badly…..it has been 4 weeks now of VERY light – practically none – training

I am concerned that when I get back to strenuous activity this beast will rear its ugly head….at least some connection there for me..

AND

PEMF sounds like a great idea!!

P.S….read lovelife’s prostattis thread – 91 pages!!! I am only on page 18 as I am documenting everything…I don’t know much yet..if anything but things seem to be working!!!!!

Keep posting results, please.

Good luck.

MAJOR BREAK THROUGH!!!!!!

went to see an athletic therapist last week who also sepcializes in pelvic injuries - she started pushing on muscles in my groin / by my butt etc and she found pockets of tight muscles causing pain for years!!!!!

she gave rigorous massage ( not internal) and my whole area afterward felt better than it have in about 15 years!!!!

gave me some stretches etc - go back and see her tomorrow!!!!!

very excited - apparently years of worrying about this while contracting my pee muscles as I constantly need to pee has created a viscous cycle of muscle related symptoms etc etc etc

AM I CURED?? NO!!!!

But I feel so good - trust me NO PLACEBO - cause there was / still is so much muscle pain (icing them this week) BUT my whole groin butt / protate area is so much more relaxed now that the pain and constant thinking has gone down too

Just one peice of big puzzle

BUT So much more to say: how can we possibly increase blood flow to prostate if muscles are tense? PLUS prostate / epi is already notoriusly low blood flow areas so all those muscles must be relaxed to allow blood flow to allow healing etc!!!!

this is real!!! PELVIC SPECIALISTS ARE recognized licensed specialists who do REAL work much like massage therapists

google: trigger points - massage therapy

google: muscles in groin butt area

google: low blood flow to prostate area

put 1 and 1 and 1 together and we have a REAL SOLUTION

PS - check out some other forums online - this is where I got idea....

docs and urologists dont have a clue!!!!!

PS - the itch went away with the Ketaconzole cream...I suspect underlying infection BUT Pelvic muscles are a BIG part of my healing!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UmJV...ayer_embedded#!

watch this video - go see a Pelvic Floor specialist - get on a good natural diet with supplements and antibiotics if there is an infection and deal with your prostate pain once and for all

- I know I am and probably would not be on this totally dead thread BUT for two reasons

1. I learned a lot from it and also got great encouragement

2. I said I would update and I also hoped others would be trying some of the stuff I am - ultrasound / PEMF healing / herbs / extracts / fungicidal cream, pelvic massages, cut out the sugar and YES - not only am I getting results I 'getting' the science behind it

and really starting to understand that doctors have just not thought about the prostate within a part of WHOLE SYSTEM.....good old docs - treat the issue with a pill but never stop to think of why it doesnt work that way....

all the best guys!!!

What happened the last time you felt pain in your body? Did you reach for an Advil? Motrin? Or go to your doctor for a prescription drug? If so, you may have suppressed your single most essential bodily function for healing.
Too often we think of inflammation as something to get rid of and instead choose to medicate our pain, swelling, or stiffness with drugs in an attempt to relieve the discomfort. However, what you might not know is that inflammation is, in fact, a critically important defense mechanism. It’s our natural siren to alert us that a body part needs attention.
Inflammation works in two main ways: primary and chronic. The primary pathway works on detoxification and repair. This is a symptom-less pathway when it is efficient. Every day when you walk, exercise, eat, or breathe the body needs to cleanse and eliminate the build up of toxins and repair any cellular injury that has occurred. When primary inflammation is hard at work, you will not experience any pain or even be aware it is occurring.
When the primary pathway of inflammation falls short, then the secondary pathway steps in. Secondary inflammation, or what you may know as chronic inflammation, is a pathway of protection. It protects your cells from rapid destruction by allowing the tissue to change and adapt to the on-going stress in the area and can cause pain, swelling, stiffness and loss of function that signals to us that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. This is when most patients will self-medicate or come to the doctor for help. Unfortunately, when chronic inflammation remains for long periods of time and is not addressed adequately, it will cause the expression of genes that lead to degenerative conditions such as coronary artery disease, arthritis, cancer and others.
While in many cases, anti-inflammatory medications are prudent and potentially life saving in patients with certain conditions such as cardiovascular disease (for example aspirin has been shown to prevent heart attacks) and auto-immune inflammations (when treated with anti-inflammatory medications, these patients can experience improved quality of life), it is still very common for doctors and patients to take a rather cavalier attitude toward prescribing and consuming these medications. It is important to note that anti-inflammatory medication is not without side effects. In suppressing inflammation, the drug is disabling the body’s ability to detoxify, repair, and protect itself. In addition, the medication itself is a toxin that needs to be eliminated.
Anyone who is on a prescription anti-inflammatory medication is required by their physician to take periodic liver function blood tests. The drugs are suppressing not only the chronic inflammation that causes pain, but also the primary pathway of inflammation, which is responsible for detoxifying our cells. When the liver is unable to detoxify expediently, then the cells of the liver will become damaged. The result? Liver toxicity. Other common side effects such as internal bleeding and drug interactions must be closely looked for.
It’s not that I am suggesting that you live your life in pain. But you can now see, every time we use a medication that suppresses inflammation, we are effectively suppressing detoxification, repair of the cells, and protection of injured tissues. What I am suggesting is that you become a responsible advocate for your own good health. Relying on a lifetime of medication alone will not improve your health. Optimizing your health depends on understanding the mechanisms that are responsible for your body’s need to maintain a chronic inflammatory approach. Often, an integrative physician who combines traditional and holistic principles to treat patients can identify these reasons. By ordering certain lab tests as well as examining the patient’s diet, lifestyle and environmental influences on health, many mechanisms can be uncovered and addressed.
So what can we do to help our bodies heal without suppressing inflammation? The answer is to decrease the need for chronic inflammation in our bodies.
Here are a few suggestions for reducing chronic inflammation*:
1. The primary pathway of inflammation is built primarily from Omega 3 fatty acids. Taking supplements rich in these natural nutrients assists the body in having a more profound primary inflammatory response and at the same time, it minimizes the chronic inflammation responsible for pain and suffering.
2. Taking supplements rich in plant enzymes such as bromelain assist the body as catalysts for the repair of our cells. Taken on an empty stomach, these enzymes can break down the byproducts of inflammation thus clearing the way for cellular repair.
3. Efficient inflammation depends on a healthy immune system. 70% of the cells of our immune system are found in the gastrointestinal tract. These cells are fed by short chain fatty acids (that do not exist in nature), which are the result of fermentation of complex carbohydrates – whole grains, vegetables, beans – by the friendly bacteria (probiotics) of our intestinal lining. So it is essential for anyone suffering with inflammation to take an ample supply of probiotics on a daily basis.
4. Consuming a diet low in Omega 6-rich foods like meat, dairy, baked goods, flour products, and grains (basically the standard American diet) also helps to relieve inflammation. Although Omega 6 fatty acids are essential in any diet because they are the building blocks of chronic inflammation (which helps the body protect itself when it can’t repair itself efficiently), it will cause the immune system to bypass primary inflammation and default into chronic inflammation, when consumed in excess.
5. Since we require water to serve as the vehicle for all chemical reactions in the body as well as to flush out toxins, proper hydration becomes paramount (the daily requirement varies from individual to individual, consult your physician for what’s right for you). I am not talking about dehydrating liquids such as caffeinated beverages and alcohol, but rather, clean, fresh water preferably filtered, distilled, or from a reliable spring.
*If you are taking any prescription medications or anti-coagulants, check with your physician before following any of these recommendations.

Dr. Robert Kornfeld is a 1980 graduate of the New York College of Podiatric Medicine. He is Board Certified in Integrative Medicine by the American Association of Integrative Medicine (AAIM) and the American Board of Alternative Medicine and is on the Executive Advisory Board of AAIM. He is also, the Founder of The Institute for Integrative Podiatric Medicine. Dr. Kornfeld has offices in Manhasset, L.I. and Manhattan. He can be reached at 516-869-3338 or at [email protected].

you know how when you discver soenmthing SO AMAZING and want to share ity so bad only to find out no one cares or no one is listening or no one believes you!!!!!!

well I am about 90% symptom free - a little inflammation left in my epi and prostate - I SO WISH OTHERS WHO STILL SUFFERED COULD READ THIS - I just saw an ad for a prostate cushion ...such a dumb product!!!! and so irrelevant - the pain you feel is real but needs to be treated not cushioned!!!

what helped me:

1. Jesus Christt - thank you!!
2. 'I will be cured' and ALL poster from ALL websites - read them ALL
3. an understanding of whole body systems including how lymphatic and circulatory systems work - ask yourself: why will my body not heal - how does body naturally relieve inflammation? thorugh circ. and lymphatic system so address these
4. pelvic floor specialist!! MOST chronic pain down there is from resulting muscle tension - first there was infection and then muscle pain that lingers and appears to be prostate - it is NOT - tonnes of research out there guys - I am not on a natural cure tangent - this is REAL!!!

Brown Bag Lecture Univ. California Medical Center San Francisco (March 2001)
Jerome M. Weiss, M.D.
Pelvic Pain


5. NO sugar diet - helps SO SO much plus low processed carb diet and lots of good protein and carbs from fruit and veggies - Candida diet is so controversial and SO SO SO hard and in the ned I did not need it - just get off the sugar junk food and white flour / table salt etc and stick to good food rich in anti-fungal and ant-bacterial - I eat lots of raw garlic and onion etc.
6. tonnes of water with ELECTROLYTES (this is KEY)
7. An understanding of the prostate - catastrophe cycle - this is KEY
lymphatic stimulation using TENS, massage and heat
8. ultrasound and or PEMF
9. some supplements - nothing major
10. HEAT and NEVER ice - ever wonder why the most relief comes in the shower? this is combo of pelvic release and lymph. stimulation


11. CANT forget my Lexfloxacin - that was an awesoe experience - when I got super fever and symptoms got super bad I panicked BUT that was bio film finallybreaking up - get a good 'infectologist' ideally OR urine / semen / prostate secretions tested

12. Valium helped too!! helped so much

13. positive attitude!!!

do I have all the answers? NO!!! But I know I feel 90% better than I did in 15 years!!!!!

the above steps are NOTHING new - I just pulled them from all of you and found out that they all need to work together - cant just count on one -

YOU MUST TREAT WHOLE BODY!!!

the remedy is CHEAP!!!! the stuff above is not expensive - dont fall for miracle drugs or super supplements or the BS floating around that says ONLY this will help or ONLY this is the best - TREAT WHOLE BODY!!!!!

learn about inflammation, how body heals, etc and ASK:

why will my prostate or epi NOT heal? dont ask: what is the cure: askhow does my body heal and then figure out what part of the healing process your body is not working towards: for me it was lymphatic system - fo you it is too!!!

any how - thank you - I hope you all get relief!!!

MAYBE IF I CREATE A WEB SITE AND SELL MY IDEA PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE ME...cuz the answer is free and simple and people seem to think this is some revolutionary healing process that only a few people know about - NOT TRUE - it is free, readily avaialble

AND

I pee so much less!!!! no dribbles - NO PAIN just before I need to pee!!!
I do not have pain down there - prost. ached for 15 years
epi was inflammed for almost two
my ejaculates are bigger. more powerful, whiter, and better - they were smaller, yellow with clumps and did not have any power...I am not 18 again BUT I am where I should be at my age


this only took about 4 weeks to really tart working - first two weeks were VERY painful as I started to heal....- I have been feeling great for about 5 weeks! better then ever and NOT worried anymore - I may get another infection some day - I am no super human BUT I feel normal - I feel great!!!

I pee once at night now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I get email notifications so if you need info ask!!!

thanks friends

bye


this is no placebo

Hi Sow&Reap, thanks for your posts.

I have a few questions:
- Did your epididymitis/prostatitis start with an infection? Any plausible theory as to why (sexual encounter etc)?
- If so was infection confirmed (presence of white blood cells in semen or prostatic sample)? Was there any pathogen found in a semen or prostatic fluid culture?
- Have you tested that the infection is no longer there? If so how have you tested for this? Are your WBC's back to normal?

I am interested that your treatment plan is working for you which is why I ask.

I am dealing with chronic epididymitis and am consistently documenting the experience along with frequent testing, cultures, and various treatments. If I ever get cured I will post the entire experience.

Separately, could you detail exactly what your treatment plan was? You say read Iwillbecured etc and there's a lot of info on that post - what exactly did you implement in your plan?

Thanks

hello!

1. let me begin by saying that I dont have all the answers....I dont have full recovery and some days seem worse than others BUT generally my good days are more and more and my bad days less and less:

2. I do not have a systematic approach at this point - still experimenting

History: Always got ear / throat infections as a kid / teen - lots of AB's AND horrible diet - my semen often had a bad smell....all natural docs say Candida - I neither agreen nor disagree with this......

AND I also had tonnes of tension in my pelvis - i am a worrier and this is where I store it - when I ger stressed I clench my thighs and activate my pubococcygeus Muscle

and the ones thaty make your balls lift - NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT - as much relevant research - I have the studies (peer reviewed) show that MUCH of Chronic P. is not infection but myofacial points that need to be released

so.....yes 15 years ago - major drug use and sex partners -

then about 3 years ago - small relapse - but the funny feeling in epi set in imediately and progressively worsened.....NO TEST supported epi BUT i only had urine test

you can actually use a needle aspiration directly in epi to test for infection - I have a rearch article from leading urology journal that found candida in a man's ball after they cut it off!!!!

plus I should have prostate excretion and semen too....but my local doc does not have those resources. I would really like to see an Infectologist some day....and NO: I have no test to show infection is healing

BUT I do have an ultrasound that shows my right epi is neary twice as big (inflammation) as left one - and HAD lots of pain

Now pain is GREATLY reduced!!!!!!

how:

increased water intake to three liters per day making sure I used electrolytes so I did not get imbalance with causes me to pee way more....

decreased 100% of processed sugar - lowered carbs too BUT still eat some fruit and cheat now and then...Candida diest would be awesome BUT so miserable - so inconvenient - so ALL or nothing.....

inversion table

lymphatic stimulation

pro-biotics

2000 mg of viitamin C

TENS + PEMF or Ultrasound

AND VERY IMPORTANT - a type of bio feedback combined with conscious relaxing of P. muscles and other ones down there

PLease pay attention to muscles down there - can you relax them at will - at any point to point where if you needed to pee / # 2 you could and would? this was very strange feeling to me and made me feel a little vulneable as I peed constantly for years...for the first few weeks trying to relax muscles actually made 'IT' ache - I always thought this was prostate aching - BUT it was actually P. muscle trying to learn to relax.....now its can relax much easier BUT i need to constantly remind mysefl to breathe and relax

AND I used 14 days of Levofloxacin - On day 7 I had a fever and got sick - I believe it was bio-film break up -and then felt awesome!!! BUT before you go on AB's prime you guts with at least several weeks of good eating and a good probiotic


I also had a major itch on my right test / scrotum - without doc's permission I applied my prescription Ketaconzole cream (for ring worm) and it took the itch away....dont know if this is related...

HERE IS THING: I have read almost EVERY post on every prostate related forum I can find and ALL chronic cases that got better talked about a type fo massage that stimulated lymphatic system in area and maybe even broke up an 'infection cyst or pocket of infection' - this has been a common theme....

I hope this helps - I hope you get better - keep me posted OK? I am not out of the water yet - though I really believe I can see the shore and I feel so much better AND..or BUT...it has onl been a few months!!! I still have much to learn - what works for you? what is your situation?

thanks!

As for me.. For approx 4 months I have had chronic pain in the back of my left testicle along the epididymis and vans deferens (pain can best be described as approx 15-25% of being kicked in the left testicle either all day or fluctuating on and off for several hours throughout the day). I've had one pathogen identified in a semen sample 2 months ago, and used 3 months of different ABX. All failed of course.. otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum..

I will put together a more complete post on what happened to me, what I've tried, what works and what doesn't, but I do want to be cured before I do that. I am documenting it all and doing many many hours of research on the best way forward, as well as efforts to be involved in current research in the genitourinary schools on chronic epididymitis.

I guess there's no point misleading people with misinformation if I only have partial/transient cure of symptoms such as placebo etc... which is why I haven't posted much yet.

Needless to say chronic pain has put a halt on my entire life and I am dedicating almost every waking hour to a resolution.

Can you please tell me more about what you know about the following that you mentioned?
- TENS + PEMF or Ultrasound (I don't know how these are related.. perhaps I am missing something?)
- lymphatic stimulation
- 'a type of massage that stimulated lymphatic system'

Can I ask you - Do you believe you still carry an infection or do you believe you dealing with residual inflammation or other issues? And what evidence has caused your conviction either way?

This I believe is a key question and one I am hoping to have concretely tested and answered in my case. Will probably have more on this in the coming weeks.

Thanks for all your input. Hopefully we can help each other out over the coming weeks and months.

yes - lets help one another ! I can tell you are dedicated and educated!

Do I still have an infection...? maybe....perhaps I need to have semen / prostate excretion samples performed as my doc has only relied on urine samples - many of them - all negative and ultrasound - POSITIVE for inflammation…my doc is very supportive BUT does not have the same motivation / hope that I have and sees to many people to dedicate his ‘practice’ to me – healing is MY # 1 priority

funny you ask this as doc says I simply have chronic inflammation and just have to learn to deal with 'pain' - I suspect both....

either way anti-inflammatories and Ant-biotics are a double edged sword that may cause more trouble than benefit...

Either way and this is the BIG ONE: regardless of which it is INFLAM or INFECT. this is a WHOLE BODY issue and not the conventional "lets treat just the epi or prostate

I know that residual inflammation can linger – I also KNOW that nerve damage can occur after too many infections and that the pain then May / need to be dealt with using robotic spermatic cord denervation – has done wonders for many - $9000 out of pocket BUT If that was the answer I would work 15 hours a day if I need to raise money!!


……So I went on the anti-inflammation diet:

https://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02012/anti-inflammatory-diet


I also suspect that the Candida diet is relevant – VERY relevant – I just do not know how relevant and it is so so so miserable BUT hey I will live on vergetables for a year if it will help…haha…Candida diet is too hard to go too hardcore..especially considering I am an emotional eater and with no proof that the damn diet is working…well I start to cheat…do not get sucked into all or nothing thinking though……and do nto get me started on the fact that the top 10 candida diet experts out there ALL disgree on what we can / cannot eat yet they all claim 100% cure rates…..PS – If you don get cured on the diet they blame you for cheating and not the diet…even if you never cheated ONCE!!!!

BUT – my sister was unable to kill a big patch of ringworm on her hand (PS: she is very clean / healthy / educated) after countless runs on ant-fungals / cortisone AB’s etc….BUT she cured it completely on candida diet – NO sugar – NO flour – LOW carbs plus apple cidar vinegar

My father also had major bladder type infections / kidney etc for years and he was a faithful / clean / healthy man – went on a crazty Candida type diet and symptoms were all gone within 6 months!!!

I believe the Candida / Ant-inflam diets are CRUCIAL just hard!!!

If you read one of my first posts I explained how our gut is like a lawn – too much pesticides kill weeds and grass – and what always grows back first? Weeds!! And stronger – so make sure you eat lots of good stuff with Pro-Biotics and naturally occurring probiotics

I do NOT believe in Colloidal silver (CS) BUT this is a long debate – I know lots of good research on In vitro CS but none on In vivo (or visa versa…) – I wanted so desperately to believe in it BUT my critical thinking skills in conjunction with an open mind and research from both sides tells me it is a ridiculous product…….


PEMF – pulsated electromagnetic frequency OR ultrasound – both would help to heal pro or epi if inflammation is the issue – research shows ultrasound may be preferable – both are under a few hundred bucks BUT NOT INFECTION

TENS - transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation – like a Dr. Ho machine – this is NOT quackery – Tens is supported by research – lots

I had a video up on here or near the end of Love life’s prostate thread showing a cool interview with a leading athletic trainer – if it is not there tell me and I will find it – it is VERY relevant – VERY!!

The TENS will give you a deep massage – do not put it on testes or penis though!!!

Instead of TENS which I still use for general pelvic muscle tension – I use an accuball and heat it up and do a full groin and Pubbococcygeus massage and everywhere else..I even tried to squeeze my epi in an attempt to increase blood flow PAIN!!! Felt like I was gonna get sick..I wonder if it helped…?

Either way my lymphatic ‘theory’ …well not theory at all …though a little cuttign edge in this area is to get your lymph. And circ. System and gut working at max capacity so your body can deal with ANY foreign body

If doc doe not detect infection THEN you either:

1. Have infection…but very hidden..dont know if this is possible…I wonder if we need an infectologist..ever hear of one of them? Seems many men feel infection BUT doc says nope….


2. residual inflammation

3. nerve damage

4. PELVIC muscle pain – This is a big one – I have a peer reviewed study that shows MANY men with urine frequency / low ejaculation pressure / low urine pressure and lots of pain down there actually have pelvic muscle pain…this seems much more relevant to the porstate then epi

BUT if muscles are tight down there than lymph and circ. System are SERIOULSY compromised..think of a tunnel that transports little healing men to go get infection and bring it back to dump BUT the tunnel is under heavy mud (muscle) and begins to collapse in…how do men get to garbage and bring it back? This analogy is primitive – but I believe it.

Try to lay in bed and progessively begin to relax all groin muscles? Can you? If you discover tension than good!!!

call it the (coined it myself!!) the prostate catastrophe cycle – (like catastrophic thinking found in cognitive behavioral therapy) – 1

Prostate Catastrophe Cycle

1. You get an infection or funny pain
2. Because your balls DEFINE man and his virility – his dominance – his capcity to re-produce, please woman ect. Well we naturally panic far more than if we hurt our knee or got strep though – I mean epi can BE VERY SCARY!!
3. this panic causes us to tense up and we become hyper focused on the pain down there
4. this tension and pain focus actually cause more pain and more worry – which lowers immune system
5. the more pain we have / lower immune system then the more we worry which cause additional pain


And the cycle – what a violent one – lives on!! That is why valium helped me – helped to relax muscles and mind which helped my issues to subside..ironically not caring really was part of my success – a little part but a part none the less

My urologist agrees with the above cycle!

Keep me posted

Sow&reap,

Two questions for you.

First of all, have you actually been diagnosed with any type of infection?

Secondly, have you tried sitting in a hot bath? Try this and see how it affects your symptoms. This is what helped me the most in figuring out my case was muscular. I would get immediate relief from the relaxation induced by the hot water.

You are most definitely on the right track with the pevlic floor therapists. I used to see one weekly in the beginning for both internal and external massage, but I do believe that women benefit from this type of treatment more than men. The sports therapist is a very, very good idea. I cannot stress this enough. Myofascial release works wonders for muscle tension and built up adhesions. Restoration of mobility, especially in the groin/pelvic region is critical to its proper function. The pelvis is extremely vital to the proper function of our bodies. This can be seen a lot in weightlifting and competitive sports as far as performance related problems due to pelvic/immobility issues. You may also want to ask your sports therapist if they do A.R.T. or Active Release Technique. Basically this is much like myofascial release massaging, but combines the pressure/massage of the muscle along with the active flexing/contraction of the muscle. I had some of this work done on my glute/hip area and it helped tremendously.

One other thing I'd like to point out is that while going through this, ejaculation can prove to be extremely problematic. Look up some information about the PC or Pubococcygeus muscle. Basically, this muscle is a key player in how things operate down there. You can really feel this muscle contract if you have ever tried doing a kegel (essentially what you are doing when you are holding in urine or trying to squeeze those last few drops out). This muscle also plays a key role in the forcefulness of the ejaculation process, along with the Ischiocavernosus and Bulbospongeosus muscles (these are the muscles that attach to the base of the penis and sit in the perinuem body). What happens many times, is that these muscles can become cramped from overuse or injury/strain. Try taking some time off from ejaculation and see how you feel. Try a week at first. Although I have never dealt with erectile dysfunction, many men that do have found significant improvement from allowing their over-cramped PC muscles to relax and heal.

I have one more question for you. Have you ever or do you currently participate in cycling for exercise or transportation? This is what I believe initially caused my onset of symptoms. I used to ride about 20 miles every night of the week for exercise, on top of the heavy olympic lifts I was doing in the gym. Basically, what happens is that long term sitting on a hard bike saddle will cause compression/irritation of the pudendal nerve. This nerve controls EVERYTHING in the gental/anal/perineal region. In fact, most of the nerves you have down there branch off of this nerve. It also actually passes directly through the Obturator Internus muscle, which is an internal hip rotator muscle which can cause irritation/compression if this muscle becomes cramped/overly tense.

I see you have checked out work done by Wise & Anderson. They have some pretty good concepts relating to the muscular approach to this. Another book to check out which is what really got the ball rolling for me to make a complete healing is "Heal Pelvic Pain" by Amy Stein. I suggest you give it a look.

Ultimately, if you have not been diagnosed with an infection, I suggest you focus on the muscular aspect. You'd be surprised how irritated nerves could be causing your pain in your epididymis as well as other things such as your frequent urination. At my worst, I was having the urge to urinate every 30 minutes. In fact, that was the first symptom I got before the pain came along.

Good luck,
-Sparky

Hi Sow&Reap & Sparky,

Just wanted to add a few thoughts based on my own methods and progress so far. It might be sounding opposite to Sparky's ideas - but no disrespect Sparky I think you're spot on for many cases and seriously appreciate you coming back to write AFTER you've been cured. Definitely wish there were more people like you on these forums.

Sow&Reap, you wrote: "BUT I do have an ultrasound that shows my right epi is neary twice as big (inflammation) as left one"

I exhibit similar inflammation. I would say the next logical step would be get a semen sample (culture and sensitivity) done. If there is a presence of white blood cells in your semen (>5 per HPF) that is a clear indication of EITHER bacterial infection, or non-bacterial inflammation. It's hard to know which.. I am currently asking the lab to split WBC into their types (Neutrophils to prove a fight against bacteria, Basophils might indicate inflammation), but it's not routinely done and I'm having a hard time convincing the lab to do it.. I am also not sure it will provide accurate results, but it is the only method I can currently think of that would provide some empirical evidence.

Note that I've done 10 semen samples in 4 months and found only one pathogen in one sample (an antibiotic resistant strain of E Coli of all things), lots of samples and only one hit - but nevertheless it was there. Also explains why several weeks of hardcore ABX didn't touch it (but doesn't explain why 6 weeks of the correct ABX didn't touch it either).

"Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence"

If you don't culture anything in the first one, try again. Keep trying weekly if need be. I am doing this weekly as we speak. Find a dr who will facilitate weekly semen and urine C&S's and if you can't convince one dr find another who will.

I think it's worth going down this road, with a clearly swollen epi you are exhibiting signs of something - whether that is bacteria or simply inflammation from other causes it will be hard to say.

I will keep you updated with my progress as I make it and other steps I am taking along the way.

All of your thoughts and comments appreciated.. thanks guys

Sparky - forgot to ask a couple of questions for you to:

1) Did you have high white blood cell count in your semen at any time, or did you initially have an infection (confirmed via culture or strongly suspected via onset of symptoms after sexual event etc)? Did your symptoms resolving correlate with a reduction in WBC count to a normal level?

2) Did you also have significant swelling of the epididymis? Is it your opinion that the stretching worked in reducing that swelling?

Thanks

No, I never had a confirmed infection. But I had every symptom known to this ailment. It was so bad at one point that after seeing 3 different doctors with no relief I went to the emergency room, only to have more blood work and urine tests done to show no infection. I had 2 or 3 semen cultures done as well, all negative. My symptoms did start almost immediately after an unprotected sexual encounter, but looking back at it now this was probably more or less highly coincidental. In all honesty, I cannot remember if my white blood cell count was elevated to any degree in either my urine or semen cultures, but I am leaning towards no since I never had a confirmed infection.

Let me tell you this. When I say I had every test done, I mean I had every test done ranging from prostatitis related testing to bladder disease testing and so on. I have had ultrasounds both externally and internally all the way up to my seminal vesicles, x-rays, CT-scans, routine prostate exam/massage, post prostatic massage urine test, urethral swab test, semen test, blood test, regular urine test, cystoscopy (extremely painful), etc.

Could I have had a slight infection in the few days leading up to my onset of symptoms? Quite possibly. In all honesty it was almost a week before I had really started realizing things were not right and got myself to the doctor. All of my symptoms had been posted here many many months ago back in the other thread, but I will give you a basic rundown of what I can remember having:

- frequent urination, urgency to urinate, pressure feeling in abdomen, pressure feeling in bladder, burning in bladder, burning in urethra (initially so bad that it felt like a hot screwdriver was being jammed up there), pain in the perineum, pain in my scrotum, pain in the rectal area, extreme difficulty with defecation (also another indicator of muscular issues), muscle spasms, onset of pain post-ejacualation, reduced ejaculatory volume, slow urine stream as if I was an 80 year old man with BPH (I'm 23 years old this was mindblowing), dribbling urination, nerve pain everywhere in my groin (the only way I can describe this is like a tingling, burning sensation -- very hard to describe)...

That's really all I can remember right now. My point is that I was CONVINCED that I had an infection. And by all means was I overly persistent in finding that bug. So much so that I began pissing off every doctor I had come in contact with. I was obsessed with pathogens and the idea that I had an infection. I spent hours upon hours researching bacteria and antimicrobial drugs. I will tell you that somewhere along the line I began to realize that maybe there was a possibility that this was not infectious. I had taken months and months of antibiotics, antifungals, etc. Once I accepted this fact, and only once I truly accepted it, did I begin making huge progress. I am not saying that your case isn't infectious, nor am I saying that it is purely muscular, but keep an open mind. It is entirely possible.

As far as stretching, it was definitely helpful. Did it cure me? Probably not, but it assisted in the process. That's really the thing about this whole situation is that it really needs to be approached from many angles. You need to tend to all of the aspects. Antibiotics are wonderful to try initially and I don't see a problem with it at all especially from a precautionary point of view. But there comes a time after months and months of ingesting medication that you need to look at other approaches and at least try them out. Oddly enough, I was never, and am still not very into holistic medicine or natural remedies, and I know that is ironic that I am on this forum (I found this forum through hours of google searching about my problem). I was convinced that there was some antibiotic pill out there that was going to fix me and that was the end of it. Not so cut and dry as that. I had to develop a more open mind and start trying other things, which eventually helped me more than any drugs had ever.

Sorry for the rant. I saw that you said out of 10+ semen cultures, you had come up positive one time for E. Coli. I understand how frustrating this can be, but 1:10 is not very determining odds. I'm not saying you absolutely do not have an infection, but you must consider the potential for contamination when collecting samples. The amount of bacteria that live on our skin alone is pretty substantial (this is why you must clean your hands and the tip of your penis very thoroughly before collection). I think your approach as far as the different types of WBC counts is a fantastic idea, but unfortunately it will probably be extremely difficult to convince the lab to do this.

I hope I answered your questions. If you have any more please post them I would be glad to help in any way I can.

-Sparky

Hi Sparky, I definitely agree that monotherapy is NOT the way to resolve this.

In my case it's a little different as my biggest problem is epididymitis and not prostatitis. But even for chronic epididymitis, monotherapy with months of antibiotics and anti-inflammatories have not worked for me. I am entertaining several theories, including biofilm, eradication of initial pathogen and growth of others, as well as no infection and just residual inflammation. It's identifying which of these is the culprit that is the hard part. But I have no doubt that I will identify it, and develop my own treatment plan to solve it. 3 weeks of my personal research, reading medical journals and getting up to date with latest studies have done more for me than 4 months of expensive doctors and specialists (3 urologists, 1 infectious disease specialist, 2 GP's and a hospital visit). So I completely agree that visiting so called 'specialists' and looking for a magic pill in the form of an antibiotic is not going to resolve a chronic case like mine.

For what it's worth here are my symptoms:

For 4 months I have had chronic pain in the back of my left testicle along the epididymis and vans deferens (pain can best be described as approx 15-25% of being kicked in the left testicle either all day or fluctuating on and off for several hours throughout the day). I have the following symptoms:
- Swelling of left epididymis and vans deferens. A palpable and painful mass on the back and upper back left testicle.
- Consistent chronic pain in left testicle, often all day and sometimes intermittently for several hours throughout the day
- Occasional discomfort in right testicle
- Consistently low ejaculation volume (< 1ml)
- Often yellow and lumpy ejaculate
- Consistent foam in urine
- Consistent mucus in urine
- Often smelly urine
- Some (inconsistent) pain and pressure in lower abdomen when urinating
- Consistently high white blood cell counts in urine and semen

As for the E Coli pathogen showing in only 1 out of 10 semen samples.. actually I think this was pretty fortunate. Looking for pathogens in semen (even though it's pretty much all an epididymitis sufferer can do save for a fine needle aspiration biopsy) presents at least the following obstacles (I will post the studies that show this when I have time):
- Semen has a very potent natural antimicrobial in it
- Only approx 2% of the volume of semen content is actual sperm, delivered via the epididymitis/vans deferens. Approx 1% each side.
- The semen travels through multitudes (millions) of tubules in the epididymitis.

Therefore, if infection is present in the epididymitis (and not the prostate) the odds of finding it are pretty small. Just for arguments sake if we assign conservative odds to the above obstacles:
- Chance of pathogen being in semen content from a patient with epididymitis only (given miniscule volume content of sperm) - maybe 5%
- Chance of sperm travelling through tubules that are infected with pathogen (note there are millions of tubules) - maybe 50%
- Chance of antimicrobial content of semen killing most of the pathogen before ejaculation - maybe 1%?

In any one semen sample: 0.05 x 0.5 x 0.99 = 2.5%.... So a patient with definite infection in unilateral epididymitis might be identified in 1 in 40 semen samples! Crude and inaccurate Im sure, but food for thought.

That being said odds of contamination are pretty high, but in my case I have to go with the weight of evidence (antibiotic resistant E Coli did explain months of ABX not working for instance).

I am currently putting together a treatment plan (some of it I have started already), which I will share with everyone if I find it successful. Mostly proven antimicrobial supplements with the combination of ABX at some point. I want to incorporate stretching into the entire treatment plan. The more modes of therapy the better IMO.

Further food for thought and I hope this can help and keep promoting discussion and further ideas for ways forward.

If any of my theories are flawed, I'd love to know so please point them out. I am NOT a doctor and only come to where I am now based on my own medical research and my best friend google scholar

Thanks everyone for your input so far.