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Old 11-17-2011, 09:08 AM
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Default 86 year old dad, I need suggestions

I have a 86 year old dad that has type 2 diabetes, not on medication for that but just about everything else and on oxygen, he must take 12-15 prescription crap per day and he will NOT quite taking the prescriptions because he thinks he will die without it, and his ankles and feet have got swollen and now he can hardly walk and talking about being moved into assisted living so NOW he MIGHT try some natural stuff, he is over weight, probably needs a liver/gallbladder cleanse or something to assist cleaning him up a little, getting some of the prescription crap out and getting the swelling down, looks to me like bad water retention but I don't know. He is old and stubborn, thinks MD's are almost god and do no harm and I will only be able to convince him of a little at a time, what would be the biggest help from the least intervention?

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Old 11-17-2011, 09:36 AM
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Sounds like edema, here are a few herbs that are beneficial for edema. Of course you have to research any you may try thoroughly for possible interactions with any of his prescription meds.

Quote:
Edema means swelling caused by fluid in your body's tissues. It usually occurs in the feet, ankles and legs, but it can involve your entire body.
https://www.natmedtalk.com/wiki/Queen_of_the_Meadow

https://www.natmedtalk.com/wiki/Sarsaparilla

https://www.natmedtalk.com/wiki/Hawthorn
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
I have a 86 year old dad that has type 2 diabetes, not on medication for that but just about everything else and on oxygen, he must take 12-15 prescription crap per day and he will NOT quite taking the prescriptions because he thinks he will die without it, and his ankles and feet have got swollen and now he can hardly walk and talking about being moved into assisted living so NOW he MIGHT try some natural stuff, he is over weight, probably needs a liver/gallbladder cleanse or something to assist cleaning him up a little, getting some of the prescription crap out and getting the swelling down, looks to me like bad water retention but I don't know. He is old and stubborn, thinks MD's are almost god and do no harm and I will only be able to convince him of a little at a time, what would be the biggest help from the least intervention?

Thank God I have the opposite issue. 88 yr old dad, realizes doctors are more of a necessary evil, hates precription meds. For the diabets, make cinnamon tea with sticks. 2 cups water, 3-4 stickes, simmer 10 minutes and cool down. drink a cup a day.

As for the MD thing, my mom is like that. Annoying! I would take him to a gym where elderly people go and just have him do the hand bicycle and them weights with 1 or 2 pound dumbbells.

Water retention. Not a big fan of allopathic drugs, but Lasix works great (they give you potassium to take with it, but I would also give him a magnesium supplement. ) Natural ways are parsley and uva ursi tea. I bet he is on a stain, get him off them. break the pills in half and take half dosage for a week and then stop. Movement is good. There are elderly aquatic movement classes. In fact, getting him moving can help reduce bloating. Good luck.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:47 AM
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This is a tough one.
In order to improve one has to want to improve and understand the concepts behind the changes and from what you are saying you will likely end up beating your head against the wall.

Swelling in the ankles may be cardiac related. He may need a diuretic or something to potentate his diuretic more if he is already on one, or an increase in diuretics or a change in some other way or possibly a change in a cardiac med. a decline in heart function can bring on edema so throwing diuretics at it may not be the best choice.

That his doc is not addressing his edema tells me that someone is asleep at the wheel.

Vitamin C is always a good choice along with a multi B and vitamin d. If he is on a statin drug he needs CoQ10 and in his condition nothing short of 200mg divided dose a day.

Other than this there is little else to do without a change in his mindset. If He goes into a nursing home diet changes will be almost impossible and every single supplement you want to try will require a doctor's order.

Is he seeing a gerontologist? They tend to use less drugs these days.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:05 AM
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Cyber Junkie, A lot of cases out there where people change their diet and and their health improves. I am stressing cinnamom tea. Call the doc and ask for 2 X 20 mg lasix. One a day for 2 days along with high dose potassium tablets. If after this the swelling continues, find another doc and make your dad see a cardiologist. But movement is mandatory, even if it is an arm bicycle. Sounds like mild congestive heart failure. That will explain the ankles, but also kidney function is diminshed in CHF. getting moving will help. (But lightly). No junk foods for a few days, NONE. Get to work on him for a few days and let us know. Prayers going out.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions...the stubbornness will be harder to treat than his problems!
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber-junkie View Post
Thanks for the suggestions...the stubbornness will be harder to treat than his problems!

You always have to remember that people have the right to their beliefs even if you think they are wrong and are an endangerment to health. Rest assured that the beliefs that he did carry all these years led him to his current elder status in years. He has his own life plan and journey. Some people just don't want to change and if this is the case it is up to you to accept. Acceptance is better than putting a wedge in your relationship and filling one's days with argument, contention and trying to force change .
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post

You always have to remember that people have the right to their beliefs even if you think they are wrong and are an endangerment to health. Rest assured that the beliefs that he did carry all these years led him to his current elder status in years. He has his own life plan and journey. Some people just don't want to change and if this is the case it is up to you to accept. Acceptance is better than putting a wedge in your relationship and filling one's days with argument, contention and trying to force change .
That's the truth...kinda hard but I try.

I got him to take a episom salt bath, getting in and out of tub was a problem but we managed, and late last night he called me and said he felt like he did a few weeks ago, much better, and the magnesium...well we know what that did but he was/is constipated and needed this, with his liver being fat and the stones in his gallbladder and at 86 the MD's wanting to remove it, I think I have the right to think they are morons!...would a liver cleanse using the episom and olive oil be helpful?
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:04 PM
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I suggest giving him Milk Thistle for his liver, easier on him and probably more beneficial than a liver cleanse at this point. The liquid tincture is what I prefer.

https://www.natmedtalk.com/wiki/Milk_Thistle

PS: I've done a gallbladder cleanse myself years ago that involved EVOO, grapefruit juice and epsom salts. I passed around 150 'stones'. From what I've read online, there's some controversy as to whether they are really gallstones, or just a formation of the olive oil mixture.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:50 PM
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If the docs want to remove the gall bladder you have to ask why?

Is there pain associated with eating?

Have they visualized the stones? I wonder how large they are. Really large stones can be a problem with a liver flush and due to his age I am guessing that he might have some big ones. They have photos of gall stones on cure zone and some are just huge. The magnesium helps to relax the common bile duct so that they can be moved out easier but still I worry about this procedure at his age. Are they recommending removal by laparosocpis surgery? That should only require, at his age an overnight stay.

Of course surgery is always a risk and a greater risk at his age but if he is in pain could it be worth it? If he's not in pain why do they want to do surgery?
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:02 AM
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If they are really gall stones, 1/2 dropper of digestive bitters before each meal, directly on tongue. You must taste the bitters for them to work. They will help stimulate bile production and release. Bitters will also gently flush the liver. Bile is an emulsifier, because of the high lecithin in the bile. So you can help this process by eating lecithin granules. These can be sprinkled on cereal, food, or smoothie.

Arrow has an excellent idea about the magnesium. I suggest magnesium malate. Malic acid will help with uric acid kidney stone formation. Magnesium + Malic acid = magnesium malate. Magnesium citrate is also good, because the citric acid will help make the magnesium bioavailable.

If he must have his gallbladder removed, I suggest he take a tablespoon of lecithin granules with each meal to help with the emulsification and absorption of dietary fats.

Lecithin is a food, so refrigerate. Granules are best.

Small amounts of oil with the meals will help the bile from becoming stagnant in the bile duct. Large amounts may cause problems, if stones are already present, because they could lodge in the duct.

The myth about liver flushing. https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...colon-cleanse/

Just try digestive bitters. They are far more gentle.
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Old 11-19-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind09 View Post
If the docs want to remove the gall bladder you have to ask why?

Is there pain associated with eating?

Have they visualized the stones? I wonder how large they are. Really large stones can be a problem with a liver flush and due to his age I am guessing that he might have some big ones. They have photos of gall stones on cure zone and some are just huge. The magnesium helps to relax the common bile duct so that they can be moved out easier but still I worry about this procedure at his age. Are they recommending removal by laparosocpis surgery? That should only require, at his age an overnight stay.

Of course surgery is always a risk and a greater risk at his age but if he is in pain could it be worth it? If he's not in pain why do they want to do surgery?
I think they may have done a ultrasound and it's not an emergency, I think they like surgery because of the $$$ which is evil! After his last surgery for the kidney stone now he is on oxygen and his health has gone down hill pretty fast so based on what I see another surgery may put hum down! I don't want him doing any more unless life threatening and I don't think the gallbladder is as they have been telling him this for a couple of years now. At 86 things hurt, I am 52 and things hurt but the answer is not just start cutting parts out of the body! that is barbaric!! he doesn't have localized pain there constantly and I don't think he is in danger I think it is all about the $$$ so if I can help him clean it up some, maybe get things moving again that may be all he needs. Just from 1 magnesium bath and a few tablets the life is back in his voice, we just want to try and keep it there.

Jon Barron make a product called "stone breaker" I took some a year ago when my gallbladder was hurting and a bottle later the pain was gone and hasn't returned, it's a herbal formula, I still have like 1/2 a bottle and I have digestive bitters, which would be better?
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:44 AM
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Are you sure that they are gallstones or kidney stones. Jon Barron's formula is specifically for kidney stones. It has a few diuretic herbs, which elderly people do not need. They already don't drink enough water. It has juniper berries which do help infections, but also lower blood sugar. Do you really want that? It has dandelion, which is excellent for several organs. https://www.jonbarron.org/detox/barro...lood-cleansing

So you should know what your dad has. Kidney or Gall stones?

For kidney, I recommend stinging nettle. The tea should work and 3 times per day. That would begin to dissolve kidney stones.

For gallbladder, I already said digestive bitters and lecithin.

Are you saying, "It won't hurt to do both?" Think about giving an 84 year old man diuretics. Maybe it would work with some kidney problems, but if he has none, then I say beware --- hypertension.
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Old 11-19-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfh View Post
Are you sure that they are gallstones or kidney stones. Jon Barron's formula is specifically for kidney stones. It has a few diuretic herbs, which elderly people do not need. They already don't drink enough water. It has juniper berries which do help infections, but also lower blood sugar. Do you really want that? It has dandelion, which is excellent for several organs. https://www.jonbarron.org/detox/barro...lood-cleansing

So you should know what your dad has. Kidney or Gall stones?

For kidney, I recommend stinging nettle. The tea should work and 3 times per day. That would begin to dissolve kidney stones.

For gallbladder, I already said digestive bitters and lecithin.

Are you saying, "It won't hurt to do both?" Think about giving an 84 year old man diuretics. Maybe it would work with some kidney problems, but if he has none, then I say beware --- hypertension.
I did not say that, I asked which would be better, I have not recommended anything to him yet, and then getting him to take it will be another story. He is swelled up with what appears to be water retention so I would think a mild diuretic would probably help and he just had surgery a few months ago to remove a kidney stone and his MD says he has gallbladder stones, I am just looking for what would be the most help naturally.
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Old 11-19-2011, 06:04 PM
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There is a drug that dissolved gall stones.... it is popular in Europe and I have heard that it is very good. Perhaps you could PM Ted and see if he can find out about it for you.. I don't remember what it is called but I think it is a natural compound.

My husband could have died from his gall bladder condition. When the surgeon said cut I said wait, lets think about this.. but my husband said no, lets cut. The docs weren't sure what was wrong with it when they went in. Turns out it had gangrene and was near to rupture! We have a lovely photo of it... so I am cautious when it comes to these issues. and not all surgeons are in it just for the money. Its a difficult position to be in making decisions like this.. but yes, you are right. Surgery for him will be high risk.... but if the surgeon ever says we must do it, which he obviously has not said so far, I would consider carefully because a ruptured gall bladder can be life threatening also.

Corns silk tea is suppose to help move kidney stones out painlessly, so I've read. It takes several cups a day in case that issue comes up again.

Once again consider his edema may be related to the heart, not the kidneys.
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