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� #46
Old 04-25-2006, 04:51 PM
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Speaking of making money ... ABC's got a made-for-tv movie premiering in May about the avian flu:

https://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.ph...8-021902-5514r

Be well,

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� #47
Old 04-25-2006, 10:02 PM
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I can't buy the government cover-up/conspiracy theory about the 1918 pandemic, Skepzilla. This killer of millions and millions was more virulent than what could possibly kill had it been simply an opportunistic hospital-borne bacteria. Hearty people--not just the weak and infirm--were well in the morning and dead by evening. Entire families were wiped out. People more robust and not in the military were similarly stricken.

The regular ol' flu doesn't cause corpses to pile up in the streets and hearses to travel through neighborhoods in a virtual parade. Nope, as the history books tell it, the 1918 pandemic was no ordinary flu. One has only to read the few books on the subject to know how "special" it was.

Some of these titles are excerpted at Amazon.com, all of them chilling.

https://tinyurl.com/mhhqw
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� #48
Old 04-26-2006, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skepzilla
Let me summarize: Epidemics are good for making money, from drugs, vaccines, and other paraphernalia. But they are also perfect for covering up misdeeds by the government or big corporations.
I would add that wars fall into the same categegory.

i.e. Argentina was financially bankrupt a few years ago
and its leadership was on the verge of being thrown out.
What did they do? They invaded the Faulkland islands.

Walla.....everybody forgot about the horrible financial
situation and the whole country rallied around the flag,
in defense of their "ideals"

Some would suggest that the current administration
has some credibility problems. What better way to
deflect criticism than to have a pandemic?

Nobody would think about the REAL crisis anymore.

BTW, don't think this is a criticism of the current admin.
by itself.

THEY ALL DO IT!
� #49
Old 04-26-2006, 11:51 AM
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Didn't they make a movie along those plot lines?

The Mouse That Roared
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053084

Quote:
The Duchy of Grand Fenwick decides that the only way to get out of their economic woes is to declare war on the United States, lose and accept foreign aid. They send an invasion force to New York (armed with longbows) which arrives during a nuclear drill that has cleared the streets. Wandering about to find someone to surrender to, they discover a scientist with a special ultimate weapon that can destroy the Earth. When they capture him and his bomb they are faced with a new possibility: What do you do when you win a war?

The best laid plans of mice and men ... A cold war satire emphasising the new emerged American Superpower's use of foreign aid to buy friends and keep then away from the USSR's influence. Peter Sellers, as the scheming Prime Minister of Grand Fenwick, plots with Peter Sellers, as the scheming Grand Duchess, to declare war on the USA, lose and get that foreign aid. Unfortunately, they forget to tell Peter Sellers, as Tully Bascombe, commander of their mediaeval army. This honourable man does his best for his country and through a series of unbelievable circumstances (well, this is a comedy) to win. Now, who has to give aid to whom?
� #50
Old 04-26-2006, 01:27 PM
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The interesting thing about conspiracy theories is that they frequently make more sense then the official explanation. Granted they may not contain all or may omit some of the information needed to positively connect all the dots, but it is for this same reason many �official� explanations are rejected.

[Don�t believe everything you think.]
� #51
Old 04-26-2006, 06:21 PM
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Well Ruby, I can't blame you for not buying a government conspiracy theory, but I didn't really offer one. I don't really think the government (or any government) conspired in 1918 to kill off millions of people. It was probably just a matter of ignorance and clumsiness. WWI was the first war in which major use was made of chemical (and perhaps biological) weapons. If these are used in a careless way, lots of domestic casualties are the result.
Of course there was a flu epidemic, that year. And as flu strains go, some are worse than others. But what I can't believe is that this one in 1918 was so much more devastating than any other strain. There must have been other lethal effects as well. Not necessarily a government conspiracy, but rather a massive cover-up of military and governmental clumsiness.
Today it's 20 years ago that the nuclear reactor in Chernobyl exploded. The Russian government did indeed try to cover it up, but the wind carried radioactive dust over 1500 miles all over Europe.
It's very hard now, after all those years, to reconstruct what exactly happened in 1918. I found the following interesting article:

https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/

One remarkable fact is that the majority of the casualties were people between 20 and 40 years old. That's very hard to reconcile with the effect of the flu, which mainly kills the very old and the very young.

We'll probably never know what really happened in 1918. But if it happens again, I promise I'll be far more alert than most people were then. I'm not inclined to shift the blame from people who cause these disasters (whether malicious or just dopey) to a virus we're all accustomed to.
� #52
Old 04-26-2006, 07:12 PM
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skepzilla said:
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:40 pm** *Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think it was a special flu virus. Nothing magical about it. Just a plain ol' flu virus, of the kind that returns every year. But there were other factors, I'm sure. The trouble is, the government doesn't tell its citizens what's going on, especially at war time. The same gases the military used in the war had to be manufactured by civilians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm trying to understand your reasoning on this statement. Are you saying that this plain ol' flu virus mutated or something? How is it that it came to kill millions in India and Asia. India was the hardest hit country. If it was just a plain ol flu? Of course I can understand that soilders might have been a greater risk for a variety of reasons.

So what was it? a plan ol flu or not. Plain ol flu does not kill like the spanish flu did. Did it turn into a bacterial infection? Most doctors at that time could determine a bacterial infection as opposed to a flu. They hold distinctly different symptoms.

Arrow
� #53
Old 04-26-2006, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
But what I can't believe is that this one in 1918 was so much more devastating than any other strain.
Either the entire world's governments were lying about the number of casualties they suffered or the flu was, in fact, much more devastating than any other strain before or after.

Either/or.
� #54
Old 04-27-2006, 03:29 PM
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Censored by a conspiracist.
� #55
Old 04-27-2006, 03:30 PM
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The following article is from NewsTarget:

There's a new poll about bird flu in the United States that gives us a somewhat alarming look at what might happen to the U.S. economy if the bird flu becomes infectious to humans. The Harvard School of Public Health conducted a telephone survey of 1,043 adults with a series of "what if" questions. The results of this poll show that 60 percent of the citizens in the United States are concerned about bird flu, indicating that there is very high awareness. Almost everyone has heard of the bird flu, and nearly two-thirds of the population is concerned about it.

However, at the same time, almost no one has done anything to prepare for bird flu. Only 2 percent of people polled said they had actually talked to a doctor about Tamiflu or other antiviral medications. This lack of preparedness across the board is what I've been warning you about, folks. For those of you who have been paying attention to the coming bird flu pandemic, it is time to prepare now, before this becomes a human disease, and before the other 98 percent of the country wakes up and suddenly realizes that they'd better do something about it.

You can rest assured that, when this 98 percent wakes up and tries to take action, whatever it is that they're attempting to buy will not be available. Antiviral herbs, medications and preparedness products will all be wiped out if that large a percentage of the population decides to do something at the same time.

A bird flu pandemic would stall the U.S. economy
That's not even the most alarming part of this study; here are more results that are actually even more shocking. First of all, on the minor side of things, 46 percent of poll respondents who eat chicken said they would stop eating chicken. Right there, we're going to see major effects on the poultry industry. A lot of those people might turn to turkey, but turkey farms might be infected very quickly, too. People might then turn to pork, beef or seafood, which might be good for those industries, but it would certainly drive up prices for those products, even while the poultry industry experienced severe losses. Related book:
How to Beat the Bird Flu: how to protect yourself from the coming bird flu pandemic
This downloadable ebook arms you with the information you need to protect you and your family from the possible bird flu pandemic the World Health Organization is warning about.
Read what your government refuses to tell you about the bird flu
"The bird flu preparedness guide that governments should publish, but refuse to."

Discover real solutions to the bird flu threat. This guide, authored by natural health reporter Mike Adams, reveals:

* How to survive bird flu if you're infected.
* The big vaccine lie: Why flu vaccine shots don't work.
* Be virtually immune to the flu, even without a vaccine.
* Alternative, underground "flu cures" that can literally save your life.
* Which two mineral supplements are dirt cheap and yet provide powerful antiviral protection.
* Real-world preparedness strategies for your home, family and community.
* The complete bird flu preparedness checklist (you aren't safe until you've completed this list!)

Click here to learn the truth about bird flu.

* P.S. Don't wait to prepare. When the masses wake up, it will be too late to acquire some crucial preparedness items covered in this book. Learn what works now, before a human outbreak.

Seventy-five percent said that if human outbreaks occurred, they would reduce or avoid travel. That number right there would bankrupt every airline in the country. That would set off severe economic consequences, going far beyond what we saw in the United States following the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001. If you recall, after Sept. 11, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) grounded air traffic for a period of several days, which produced enormous economic consequences for the country. Trade shows were canceled, businesses couldn't conduct business, people couldn't visit their loved ones, travelers were stranded... it was a giant mess. Now, imagine that effect multiplied by six months or a year. That's what we could see in this country if human outbreaks of bird flu occur.

Seventy-one percent of poll respondents said they would skip public events. That's a very smart strategy. It means that people understand how infectious disease spreads. During an outbreak, it's smart to stay home, stay away from other people and try to ride out the pandemic in relative isolation.

On the other hand, I don't think these people have really thought it through. Sure, they can avoid an outdoor concert, a picnic or a movie, but how are they going to buy food? Are they going to avoid grocery stores? How are they going to get basic supplies? How are they going to work? How are they going to get paid? What's really going to happen to these people when they start thinking about other interactions they have with potentially infected people? You see, these poll results indicate that 71 percent, seven out of 10 people, are going to try to avoid contact with other human beings. The economic consequences of this will be far-reaching and enormous.

Essential services would fail in the event of a bird flu pandemic
Sixty-eight percent of poll respondents -- that is, over two-thirds -- said they would stay home and keep their children at home while the outbreak lasted. This is huge. If this many people actually do this, the U.S. economy will all but collapse. Related article
Bird flu timeline: A history of influenza from 412 BC � AD 2006 Think about this very carefully: If two-thirds of the people stay home, don't go to work, don't go out and spend money, don't go and produce something, this country will experience severe economic consequences. Not just a recession, not just a depression -- but a sharp, and hopefully only temporary, collapse of basic economic activities.

That's what we're looking at, and let me translate this into real terms for you. This means two-thirds of the people who run the oil refineries won't go to work. Two-thirds of the people who run the power plants and the water plants, who drive trucks and deliver all the goods and food across this country, won't go to work. Two-thirds of the schoolteachers; two-thirds of government workers; two-thirds of your local police officers, firemen and ambulance workers; two-thirds of the hospital workers -- the doctors, the nurses, the anesthesiologists; two-thirds of bridge maintenance workers and street repairman -- none of these people will go to work.

You get the idea here. What happens if two-thirds of the workers in all these basic infrastructure services are suddenly missing because they're staying home, attempting to save their families from the bird flu outbreak?

I'll tell you what happens: We will experience a shutdown of essential services in this country. And following that, have no illusions, we will see a declaration of martial law because the military will have to be called in to run some of these basic services and establish order. If two-thirds of the police officers are not on the street, then somebody has to be brought in to prevent mass uprisings, mass protests and mass chaos.

You saw what happened with Hurricane Katrina. Caught in the chaos without any real help from FEMA, many New Orleans police officers said, "This isn't worth a paycheck!" They turned in their badges and left town. If I remember correctly, over a hundred police officers quit. What do you think is going to happen when a low-level police officer -- who makes $25,000, maybe $35,000 a year -- has to choose between staying on the job and facing potentially armed rioters vs. staying at home and protecting his family? What do you think he is going to choose? He's going to quit his job and stay home to protect his family, and this is going to happen across the board. It's a no-brainer.
Related article
Local law enforcement keeps worst of human nature restrained
This is not to say anything bad about police officers. I have great respect for the law enforcement professionals who help keep the peace today, but you cannot expect them to sacrifice the safety of their families for what is essentially a job. It's an unreasonable expectation. In fact, anyone who wants to reduce his or her risk of contracting the disease will stay home, regardless of what they do for a living.

Where does this leave you as the end user of these services? It means that you'd better be prepared for a situation in which you may not get these basic services for an extended period of time. You might not get these services for a week, a month, six months or perhaps even a year, because that's how long this epidemic could last.

How will you live without water service for six months? How will you live without electricity, heat or gasoline? Without a bountiful supply of food delivered to your local grocery store every single day? How will life be without all the stuff you buy at Wal-Mart, Kmart and other convenience stores? How will you wash your clothes? How will you keep yourself bathed? How will you keep yourself and your family fed? How will you protect your household and your community?

Lulled into a false sense of security
These are important questions, and again, most people are not even thinking about them because they think it can't happen here. They think it can't possibly happen, and society will always work the way it has worked. They go on with their lives believing that nothing bad could ever happen in the United States because, well, we are a first world country. They believe it couldn't happen here because this is the richest nation in the world.

The fact is, it can happen here and right now. It's happening to the chicken industry in France, which is now severely infected with bird flu. France is a first world nation, too. France is about to experience a major collapse of its chicken industry. There is already a 30 percent drop in chicken consumption in France as of this writing, and now bird flu has been found in the U.K. as well.
It can happen here and, as this poll is telling us, if it does happen here, the public is going to react in a way that will inevitably cause the interruption, or possibly even the temporary collapse of, essential public services such as law enforcement, electricity, fuel, energy, food, emergency services and so on.

This is why, for two years now, I have been urging people to prepare. I am a strong believer in preparedness. I actually live my life with a philosophy of preparedness, regardless of external events, so I am not concerned about a hurricane, tsunami, earthquake, tornado or pandemic. I can survive them all, can you?

That's a question you had better be asking yourself as this viral threat approaches, because it is getting worse. This virus is very aggressive. This pandemic is spreading from country to country in a way that we have never before witnessed in the history of modern civilization. Nothing like this has ever been recorded -- not even in 1918, when a similar virus ultimately killed 50 million people worldwide.

The virus we are seeing in the birds today is far more virulent and far more dangerous, and if it does jump to humans, you'd better be prepared, because this poll is shouting right in your face, telling you exactly what's going to happen: Two-thirds of the population will stay home and basic infrastructure will collapse. Do the math on this one. It isn't rocket science.

My book, "How to Beat the Bird Flu," talks in great detail about preparedness. I review products, offer a preparedness checklist and show you exactly how to get ready for infrastructure failures. I even explain how to beat the bird flu virus, so you can greatly reduce your risk of infection and increase your chances of surviving an infection if you do get one.

It's a very timely book that is already in extremely high demand. As of this writing, we are expecting to run out of printed copies within a matter of days. Of course, we'll print more, but there's always a delay in that. Our friends in Europe are buying these books up like crazy right now.
Related article
Governments aren't telling people the truth about bird flu preparation Even if you don't buy "How to Beat the Bird Flu", I urge you to start preparing on your own, right now. Set aside some stored water. Think about how you're going to live, potentially without electricity or natural gas, for some period of time. Think about preparing for a big storm or hurricane, but one that could last several months. Think about stored food, and what you need to do in terms of basic medical supplies and basic personal hygiene. Because if you are prepared, you will not be a victim of this.

Of course, if the best case unfolds and this doesn't become a human pandemic, then guess what? You are already prepared for anything else that could come your way: Power grid failures such as those that hit the East Coast a few years back, terrorist actions, storms, hurricanes, earthquakes, riots -- you are prepared for it all. Preparedness is the key. Start now and make it a lifelong habit.

Remember, if the bird flu virus becomes a human pandemic, there will be three kinds of people after it's all over:

1. People who prepared and survived.
2. People who didn't prepare and are dead.
3. People who didn't prepare, gambled with their lives, and were lucky enough to survive by sheer chance.

Which group do you want to belong to? Ninety-eight percent of the U.S. population is currently in group #3. Some unknown percentage of those people may ultimately end up in group #2. The smart people will deliberately put themselves in group #1. I hope you'll join me in group #1.
Link back to this article: https://www.NewsTarget.com/019363.html
� #56
Old 04-27-2006, 04:51 PM
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I wonder what Adams says about arming yourself against the unprepared hoards that are sure to descend on those who are prepared. Anyone want to buy the eBook and find out for all of us? Oh, heck...I'll buy it.

Stay tuned....
� #57
Old 04-27-2006, 04:57 PM
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Well, darn, it's a copy protected .pdf file that cannot be excerpted here.
� #58
Old 04-27-2006, 05:22 PM
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Well, don't know what this pdf says, Ruby, but I know from first hand experience. My father built a fallout shelter in our back yard in the early sixities. Fully equiped underground bunker with air filters, water filters, what ever was needed to surivive a nulear fallout situation. All our neighbors new about it.

When at the tenderr age of about 8 I asked my father what would happen if grandma wouldn't go in it as she said she wouldn't he said I drag her down the stairs by her hair if had to. And then I asked about he neighbors as I was horrified that my friends would be unprotected. I asked what would happen if neighbors tried to come in and all he said was "see that shotgun over there" as he motioned to the gun cabinet.

That shut me up.

Really, today the attitude amongst survivalists is about the same. I stock food but I could not withhold from the hundgry, I don't think if they came to my door. They may bust my door down and that would be it and leave us destitute. Who can say. Enough senarios have been played on in film. Take your pick.
� #59
Old 04-27-2006, 07:12 PM
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Arrowwind wrote:
Quote:
I'm trying to understand your reasoning on this statement. Are you saying that this plain ol' flu virus mutated or something? How is it that it came to kill millions in India and Asia. India was the hardest hit country. If it was just a plain ol flu? Of course I can understand that soilders might have been a greater risk for a variety of reasons.
Yes, flu viruses do mutate. That's why we get it back each year in a slightly different form. But this emphasis on mutation is a little overdone. The possibility that mutation will produce a monster killer all of a sudden is very remote.
When there is a wave of deaths in a short period, the tendency most people have is to assume that the cause of death is the same in all cases. This is not necessarily so. Other factors may be entering the picture. Among these factors may be bacterial infections, also taking their toll. But in countries where the majority of the population is dirt-poor, malnutrition may be an additional factor contributing to the mortality. Poorly-fed people are more vulnerable to diseases like the flu than people in first-world countries. And so the high mortality in India and other Asian countries may be explained. On the other hand, many western men were fighting in the war, and became vulnerable that way. Anyhow, you and I were not around in 1918 (I presume), so we don't know for sure. But there must have been several factors working together, to wreak such havoc.

About the bird flu we have completely opposing ideas. You say: "Prepare! Prepare!" while I'm saying: "Relax! It's not coming!" No virus is so dangerously virulent as they say about this bird virus. It's all hype. I agree with all you say about the economical situation being affected by such a pandemic. But these economic factors already come into play by just believing in the pandemic. People start hoarding food, they refuse to eat chicken (I still eat it), etc. So even when this year and the next will pass without the pandemic really happening, there will still be economic repercussions. (And that's just what was intended by the folks who started this scam).

You asked:
Quote:
How will you live without water service for six months? How will you live without electricity, heat or gasoline? Without a bountiful supply of food delivered to your local grocery store every single day? How will life be without all the stuff you buy at Wal-Mart, Kmart and other convenience stores? How will you wash your clothes? How will you keep yourself bathed? How will you keep yourself and your family fed? How will you protect your household and your community?
I can answer that: Exactly as I lived as a young boy in the winter of 1944-45. There was no food, no heat, no electricity, no transportation, no nothing. Police protection? There was none. Only bombs raining down on the city, thrown by our friends, the allied forces. But under those circumstances, people become inventive and very adaptable. So we improvised, and we survived, mothers and children. There were no fathers left. They had all been taken away and put into Nazi German labor camps. But shucks, this was war. And Europe was the battleground.
Americans have been spoiled by history. They have not seen war on their own soil for 150 years. So they worry about a little thing such as a flu epidemic, which will certainly not be as devastating as they are led to believe. So I say: "Relax!" If worst comes to worst, you'll find yourself unprepared anyway. You can't prepare for all possible disasters.

Am I an eternal optimist? Not really. Although I'm making light of this bird flu business, I'm absolutely convinced that there will be a nuclear war one day. I don't know when, but it will happen, with a much higher probability than a bird virus mutating into a killer human virus.
How to prepare for nuclear war? I don't know. I'm stumped. Just play it by ear when it comes.
� #60
Old 04-27-2006, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
When there is a wave of deaths in a short period, the tendency most people have is to assume that the cause of death is the same in all cases.
"Wave" of deaths? More like a tsunami! The 1918 pandemic was so awful, so indescribably virulent that the survivors and heirs of those who died tend to block it out. The descriptions of the deaths of those who succumbed defy absorption. When most people--sure, some people died of natural causes or for other reasons during the flu deaths--were bleeding from their noses and ears, it's hard to say, "just another flu."
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