and as far as I am aware every one of them either lived or played with dead or infected birds in their homes.
Don't know about anyone else but I think that is pretty unsanitary way of living even without the bird flu. Although I am aware that is how people do live and that is up to them - just not for me.
Honestly, Skepzilla, have you read any of the books about the 1918 pandemic? Do you think the authors and all the people they interviewed made up what happened?
No, honestly, I never read any of those books. I don't think the authors made up all those details, but I'm pretty sure they dramatized them a little. That's what writers do. Otherwise their books will be too dull.
But really, the horrible symptoms you describe (bleeding from mouth and ears) are not typical of the flu, no matter how virulent.
People living in remote rural places? Perhaps like New Mexico? Around Los Alamos? Im not really trying to be sarcastic. But my point is that there are lots of things your (and everybody's) government won't tell you about. I've been on the government side for a couple of years. In Puerto Rico there was an epidemic of Dengue fever going on. Something had to be done. The press was on our case. My boss, the Secretary of environmental health, suggested to spray the City of San Juan with malathione. We were all in favor (No, I'm not proud of it). So we sent up a plane with the toxic stuff. We wouldn't have informed the citizenry at all, had not a beekeeper complained to the press that all his bees had died.
In the course of my career I have also worked as a humble young scientist with senior colleagues such as Jesse W. Beams (the centrifuge expert) and Lawrence Cranberg (nuclear physicist), both former scientists at Los Alamos, working on the Manhattan Project during the war).
Believe me, there is so much you don't know about all the things the government exposes citizens to, that this flu virus would be the least of your worries, if you found out about all the other things.
Working on virus samples from the remains of victims of the 1918 pandemic, the researchers were able to piece together the entire genetic sequence of the virus. They found the virus contained elements that were new to humans of the time--making it highly virulent. And analysis of the final three pieces of the virus' genetic code has revealed mutations that have striking similarities to those found in flu viruses found only in birds, such as the H5N1 strain currently found in south east Asia.
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People living in remote rural places?
Flu: The Story of the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918 and the Search for the Virus That Caused It
By Gina Kolata
The plague took off in September of that year, and when it was over, half a million Americans would lie dead. The illness spread to the most remote parts of the globe. Some Eskimo villages were decimated, nearly eliminated from the face of the earth. Twenty percent of Western Samoans perished. And no matter where it struck, the virus went after an unusual group�young adults who generally are spared the ravages of infectious diseases. The death curves were W-shaped, with peaks for the babies and toddlers under age 5, the elderly who were aged 70 to 74, and people aged 20 to 40.
Children were orphaned, families destroyed. Some who lived through it said it was so horrible that they would not even talk about it. Others tried to put it behind them as another wartime nightmare, somehow conflating it with the horrors of trench warfare and mustard gas. It came when the world was weary of war. It swept the globe in months, ending when the war did. It went away as mysteriously as it appeared. And when it was over, humanity had been struck by a disease that killed more people in a few months' time than any other illness in the history of the world.
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Believe me, there is so much you don't know about all the things the government exposes citizens to,
In the case of a worldwide pandemic--which the 1918 flu was and the 2006-200? flu threatens to be--we're talking about multiple governments. Are you saying that legal governments of the entire world did conspire (1918) and are allegedly about to conspire to murder (let's not beat around the bush; murder is what it would be) its citizens?
Sounds to me like if any human catastrophe merits a bit of drama, it was the 1918 pandemic. From Gina Kolata's book.
How many became ill? More than 25 percent of the U.S. population.
What about servicemen, the very young and healthy who were the virus's favorite targets? The Navy said that 40 percent of its members got the flu in 1918. The Army estimated that about 36 percent of its members were stricken.
How many died worldwide? Estimates range from 20 million to more than 100 million, but the true number can never be known. Many places that were bludgeoned by the flu did not keep mortality statistics, and even in countries such as the United States, efforts at tabulating flu deaths were complicated by the fact that there was no definitive test in those days to show that a person actually had the flu. But still, the low end of the mortality estimates is stunning. In comparison, AIDS had killed 11.7 million people through 1997. World War I was responsible for 9.2 million combat deaths and around 15 million total deaths. World War II for 15.9 combat deaths. Historian Crosby remarks that whatever the exact number felled by the 1918 flu, one thing is indisputable: the virus "killed more humans than any other disease in a period of similar duration in the history of the world."
How lethal was it? It was twenty-five times more deadly than ordinary influenzas. This flu killed 2.5 percent of its victims. Normally, just one-tenth of 1 percent of people who get the flu die. And since a fifth of the world's population got the flu that year, including 28 percent of Americans, the number of deaths was stunning. So many died, in fact, that the average life span in the United States fell by twelve years in 1918. If such a plague came today, killing a similar fraction of the U.S. population, 1.5 million Americans would die, which is more than the number felled in a single year by heart disease, cancers, strokes, chronic pulmonary disease, AIDS, and Alzheimer's disease combined.
But the raw numbers cannot convey the scenes of horror and misery that swept the world in 1918, which became part of everyday life in every nation, in the largest cities and remotest hamlets.
Thanks for supplying all this information. But a lot of it leads to the same conclusions I came up with. Examples:
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And no matter where it struck, the virus went after an unusual group�young adults who generally are spared the ravages of infectious diseases.
For a virus infection this simply makes no sense. Young adults generally have strong immune systems, protecting them against viruses.
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The death curves were W-shaped, with peaks for the babies and toddlers under age 5, the elderly who were aged 70 to 74, and people aged 20 to 40.
Babies, toddlers and the elderly fit the normal picture for a virus infection. But a peak in the 20-40 age group? That does not suggest a virus at all, but perhaps activities young adults engage in; fighting in wars, for example.
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Others tried to put it behind them as another wartime nightmare, somehow conflating it with the horrors of trench warfare and mustard gas. It came when the world was weary of war. It swept the globe in months, ending when the war did. It went away as mysteriously as it appeared.
See? I don't think my speculation was all that weird.
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...and even in countries such as the United States, efforts at tabulating flu deaths were complicated by the fact that there was no definitive test in those days to show that a person actually had the flu.
Right. So could it be that, in addition to the people who actually did die from the flu, there were many other victims who died of other causes?
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How many became ill? More than 25 percent of the U.S. population.
For that reason I have the impression that among the fatalities there were a disproportionate number of Americans.
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The Navy said that 40 percent of its members got the flu in 1918. The Army estimated that about 36 percent of its members were stricken.
Yeah. I'll bet those soldiers were told as little about phosgene and mustard gas as those fighting in Vietnam were told about agent orange.
Well Ruby, we agree that it was a catastrophe. But when I asked the grandfather types in Europe about the 1918 epidemic, they always said something like: "1918? Yep. That was a bad one". And that was all.
So why is this 1918 flu at the center of public attention, all of a sudden?
Well, let me take the gloves off and go after... No, not you, Ruby; you're a sweetheart. No, I'm going after Gina Kolata, who wrote the book you quoted.
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AIDS had killed 11.7 million people through 1997.
Ah! Now the other shoe drops! The 1918 flu virus is invoked to prop up the incorrect virus theory of AIDS. Better informed people who "were there" know that it was not AIDS that killed all those people, but the medical treatment of AIDS (which is not even one disease).
And now <grrrr!!> that article on flupharmacy.com:
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US scientists have found the 1918 virus shares genetic mutations with the bird flu virus now circulating in Asia.
You're bluffing, guys! You have neither the 1918 virus, nor the H5N1 virus of today in your possession. So how do you know the pieces of RNA you sequenced were from either virus? A dumb piece of RNA does not a virus make.
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But they believe the 1918 strain was probably entirely a bird flu virus that adapted to function in humans.
Oh, they believe, do they? Do scientists also believe in the tooth fairy?
The boogeyman?
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And Dr Jeffery Taubenberger, lead researcher of the Nature study, said: "Determining whether pandemic influenza virus strains can emerge via different pathways will affect the scope and focus of surveillance and prevention efforts."
Why does this quote sound to me exactly like "blah - blah - blah..."?
Has anybody ever heard of the "Peter Palaver"? (from the author of "The Peter Principle")
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Professor John Oxford, an expert in virology at Queen Mary College, London, said the suggestion that the virus had the potential to jump between humans without first combining with a human virus made it even more of a threat.
Eh... the suggestion, right? That's all that's needed in modern science.
But it's nice of profesor Oxford to say this. It proves that Europe has its own scientists with more balls than brains.
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Dr Terrence Tumpey, of the US CDC, defended the decision to recreate the 1918 flu virus.
He said: "We felt we had to recreate the virus and run these experiments to understand the biological properties that made the 1918 virus so exceptionally deadly.
Ain't no virus you recreated, bro'! No defense necessary. An apology for the bald-faced lie would be appreciated, though.
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"...with the hope of designing antivirals or other interventions that would work against virulent pandemic or epidemic influenza viruses."
I understand... $$$$$$$$$$
OK, let me wipe my blade clean. Back to a civil conversation with Ruby:
Well, I never meant to insinuate that governments all over the world conspire to murder huge numbers of their own citizens (although Idi Amin and Stalin came close). But fatal mistakes are made everywhere. And if they coincide with another event taking lives (such as a flu epidemic), it's very tempting to cover up the mistakes and blame the casualties on the natural plague that's happening at the same time. All governments do this.
There is no doubt there was something unusual going on in 1918. But we have more than 100 years of experience with viruses. Based upon what we know about them, I submit that it was not the virus that was so unusual. Rather there were other circumstances that led to the disastrous outcome. And yes, there is a certain similarity with AIDS. We cannot deny that a lot of people died. But we can differ about what killed them.
Well, I never meant to insinuate that governments all over the world conspire to murder huge numbers of their own citizens (although Idi Amin and Stalin came close).
Yes, I understand that, now and then, evil arises and despicable leaders wipe out THEIR OWN. But in the case of the alleged avian flu, ALL THE DESPICABLE LEADERS would have to work together, at the same time, to create a pandemic.
So while I believe a pandemic may happen, it's not the result of evil leaders acting in concert to destroy their own.
On the contrary, I feel somewhat powerless to do anything but prepare MYSELF in case a pandemic occurs. But if it does occur, and YOU'RE unprepared, I'll send you a few face masks as I have plenty.
Ruby,
I feel as powerless as you do in the face of pandemics, hurricanes, floods, volcanic eruptions, meteoric collisions, and nuclear explosions. But it's nice of you to think of me when face masks will be needed. I'm afraid they won't help much against viral epidemics (but staying away from other people does). You will definitely be able to put them to good use, though, when that damn photochemical smog, for which Southern California is so famous, rises up. I remember it well, from the time I lived there.
I agree with Skepzilla about the pointlessness of wearing masks to protect against flu. After 20 minutes use a mask is wet with exhaled moisture, which means it is no barrier at all and needs to be changed for a clean one. So at least you know you have to wash your hands each time you take off a face mask! And gloves give a false sense of security while getting every bit as germ laden as hands.
Frequent washing is the safest action.
However only surgical masks and N95 masks--designed to block airborne particles--will work. These masks protect the face from droplets coughed out by infected people, which the team believes is the primary mode of spread. Seto says droplets are probably the main mode of transmission of SARS outside hospitals as well. He says the findings confirmed SARS is not spread through the air; if so, only the N95 masks would have been protective. [...] Analysis of the data showed that the use of surgical or N95 masks was the only measure to give statistically significant protection. Paper masks offered little protection, says Seto. "Such masks, being easily wet with saliva, are never recommended as a precaution against droplets."
You really think a face mask is gonna protect you? Well, you can put your trust in that piece of paper that you will be breathing through, but me, I'll trust my Vision Silver Hydrosol.. 100 time more powerful than the best quality Colloidal Silver and yet, 1,000 times safer... Kills every virus/bacteria known to man and no virus/bacteria has ever grown immune to it.
It is now used by burns hospitals because of it's ability to fight off infections.
If you think the mask will help, I'm happy for you. I personally don't think they will help.. they don't seal good, they get wet, and I think will give people the same false sence of security as using gloves. You see most people in hospitals wearing mask to keep from spreading their germs, not to keep from getting them.. When you wear a mask, you sweat. That sweat from your brow and forehead, runs down into the mask and is absorbed.. That virus you want to be protected from will adhier to that sweat ball and travel down to your mask..
That is my opinion and guess, when the flu hits.. (yeah right).. we will see.. In the mean time, I'll just keep takin my daily dosage of the Silver Hydrosol.
Sovereign Silver will work also. Both are incrediable products....
__________________
If you have any questions about any product that I mention, please PM me. I'm not a doctor. Just someone who cares and that has seen some incrediable results. Now.. go take some MSM and Vit C.
Ruby asked "Then why are all those people even using masks when handling dead birds?! "
Maybe they wear them on the principle that some protection is better than none. Maybe they wear them for only a short time, or perhaps they are using respirators? If an ordinany mask has become moist from breathing, after a short time, it won't protect from droplets - another form of moisture. But they are good for keeping particles, such as dust and dirty bits from dead birds, from being inhaled. A virus is a different matter.
It's amazing to see what strange ideas the health and safety people come up with. Most of their action is to avoid prosecution.
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