I have been warned against pharma anti fungals countless times. Too hard on the liver and I this case natural medicine is just as strong. I have put enough pharma ceap in my body.

I took a lot of allicin months ago after reading iwillbe's findings. I was doing it with antibiotics. At that time i was convinced by doctors that it was bacterial with no findings or real attempts to find any. Allicin is not cheap (but neither is prostatitis) I eat raw garlic. I was taking 15 20 allicin pills a day but again taking abx so I can't judge the effect if I took it now without antibiotics. For someone in pain and new to this I would try it. It's not cheap but reports are good.

I remember there are different prices and deals on allicin depending on where you buy it. Maybe someone could post the best price and address.

Again if doctors ant find bacteria then try and find a homeopath that is in the top of the field. Bacteria is for doctors and antibiotics should work fast with results sooner than later.

Good luck harrycrumb
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its kind of cheap here in the UK... shame for those in the US

Everyone should read this:
https://iai.asm.org/cgi/reprint/IAI.00910-10v1.pdf
Although CP/CPPS is associated with bacteria only in about 8% of cases (25), infection has often been postulated as an initiating factor (29). We present the first experimental evidence that a bacterial isolate from a patient with CP/CPPS can initiate and sustain the development of chronic pelvic pain, a distinguishing characteristic of CP/CPPS. In doing so, our in vitro and in vivo animal models suggest that bacterial characteristics as well as the immunogenetic background of the host are important determinants in the development of chronic pelvic pain.

it has been hypothesized that chronic bacterial prostatitis is characterized by the
presence of biofilms (6). In vitro studies on prostatitis bacteria have demonstrated a greater
tendency for the development of biofilm-like structures that are assumed to adhere to the
epithelium of the ductal system (33). Our studies with CP1 are the first to suggest that in
addition to classical mechanisms of biofilm formation, prostatitis strains possess the ability to
invade and persist within the cytoplasm of prostate epithelial cells (Fig. 1). The potential to
invade and proliferate inside cells would dramatically enhance the ability of these bacteria to
resist host immune mechanisms and would provide a unique ecological niche.

Basically they took bacteria (E coli) from a patient and then used it to cause infection in animal models. Both bladder and prostate were infected, but even though bacteria were completely killed, the symptoms still remained long after. Worth reading the whole thing. You gotta make sure that you have killed the infection though first.

Interesting. I found an article last night. i have googled and googled since then and can not find it for the life of me now. but it was about a guy named john from north dakota and he had prostatitis for 14 years.
he had seen a total of 8 different urologists over 14 years.
it talked about all the urinalysis he had over the years and they were all clean. He also had prostate massage countless times to check for bacteria pus cells were found in his prostate fluid but never any bacteria. He also had a semen analysis 6 times over the 14 years.he was put on countless number of antibiotics over the years. he was eventually told by urologists
that he had non bacterial prostatitis. he finally had his prostate taken out and what they found during a biopsy was bacteria in a chamber in his prostate he had ecoli all along. It also turned out his prostate was full of abscesses which were preventing any antibiotic form reaching the site of infection and killing it.

Just goes to show you doctor don't always have the answers

abscess - is a collection of pus (dead neutrophils) that has accumulated in a cavity formed by the tissue in which the pus resides on the basis of an infectious process (usually caused by bacteria or parasites) or other foreign materials (e.g., splinters, bullet wounds, or injecting needles). It is a defensive reaction of the tissue to prevent the spread of infectious materials to other parts of the body.
The final structure of the abscess is an abscess wall, or capsule, that is formed by the adjacent healthy cells in an attempt to keep the pus from infecting neighboring structures. However, such encapsulation tends to prevent immune cells from attacking bacteria in the pus, or from reaching the causative organism or foreign object.

[Approaches to raising efficacy of treatment of patients with chronic prostatitis associated with intracellular infections].

[Article in Russian]
Kul'chavenia EV, Breusov AA, Brizhatiuk EV, Kholtobin DP.
Abstract

The efficacy of indigal plus containing indol-3-carbinol, epigallocatexin-3-gallat and Serenoa repens extract in combination with sparfloxacin was studied in a trial with participation of 30 patients with chronic infectious prostatitis associated with intracellular agents. Group 1 (n=15) received indigal plus (2 capsules twice a day for 3 months) and sparfloxacin (200 mg twice a day for 1 month). Group 2 including 15 matched controls received sparfloxacin alone according to the same schedule. The examination included questionnaire survey (IPSS, QoL, NIH-CPSI), blood count, urinalysis, PSA test, microscopy, bacteriological study of prostatic secretion, uroflowmetry, transrectal ultrasound investigation of the prostate with residual urine assay, laser doppleroflowmetry. The examinations were performed on the treatment day 30, 60 and 90. After the antibacterial treatment chlamidia, ureaplasma and E.coli were detected in 13.3, 6.7 and 26.7% patients of the control group, in 6.7, 6.7 and 6.7% patients of the study group, respectively. Thus, the addition of a pathogenetic drug indigal plus to sparfloxacin treatment promoted normalization of apoptosis of the infected cells, led to more effective bacterial eradication, enhanced regression of the symptoms. It is recommended to include indigal plus in a basic scheme of treatment of patients with chronic infectious prostatitis

Treatment of chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome category IIIA with Serenoa repens plus selenium and lycopene (Profluss) versus S. repens alone: an Italian randomized multicenter-controlled study.

Morgia G, Mucciardi G, Gal� A, Madonia M, Marchese F, Di Benedetto A, Romano G, Bonvissuto G, Castelli T, Macchione L, Magno C.
Source

Departments of Urology, University of Messina, Messina, Italy.

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

To evaluate the efficacy and safety of Serenoa repens + selenium and lycopene (Profluss) versus S. repens alone for the treatment of category IIIa chronic prostatitis/chronic pelvic pain syndrome (CP/CPPS).
PATIENTS AND METHODS:

102 patients with IIIa CP/CPPS were enrolled and randomized into two groups each to receive Profluss or S. repens alone for 8 weeks. Evaluation was based on results of the National Institutes of Health-Chronic Prostatitis Symptom Index (NIH-CPSI), IPSS, maximum peak flow rate (MPFR), and PSA measurements at baseline and at weeks 4, 8 and 8 after the end of treatment. The primary endpoint was a >50% reduction in NIH-CPSI score. Secondary endpoints evaluated were MPFR, IPSS, PSA and white blood cell count.
RESULTS:

No patients withdrew from the study. The mean NIH-CPSI score decreased significantly (p < 0.001) in both groups; we observed a decrease in the total score from 27.45 to 13.27 in group 1 (-51.64%) and from 27.76 to 20.62 in group 2 (-26.06%). IPSS improved significantly (p < 0.001) in both arms, but more in group 1. PSA and white blood cell count decreased significantly (p < 0.007) only in group 1. The MPFR improved more in group 1 (p < 0.005).
CONCLUSION:

Profluss is a triple therapy that is safe and well tolerated. It ameliorates symptoms associated with IIIa CP/CPPS.

Very interesting...is sparfloxacin different from ofloxacin and do u know anything about indol-3-carbinol and epigallocatexin-3-gallat...where I could obtain them? I know mine is intracellular infection so this treatment seems intriguing to me..

Allamed is the choice product for a garlic compound. In my looking into its use for MRSA, which it is effective on, which also forms biofilms, 4 to 6 months of treatment is generally required.

Whenever there is infection there will be inflammation. I wonder if serrapeptase will help as it reduces inflammation in many different conditions. Also, in reducing the inflammation you create a less hospitable environment for the bacteria to grow. It may compliment whatever else you are doing. www.serrapeptase.info

There is a drug you may want to learn about for those who believe that their case is caused by candida. Its called Lufeneron. Do a search on this forum and you will find articles and links for it. Apparently this drug will not interfere in any human metabolic processes at all but it will destroy the chitan cell structure of candida.

just ideas I'm throwing out there... I can not confirm any of it for this issue

__________________

High doses of Vitamin D3 increases LL37 peptide. It's the best activator of this peptide. It basically punches holes in bacteria cells so it's a broad spectrum antibiotic that is part of our innate immune system. at least 5000IU a day of D3 would increase expression of LL37. High doses can be used for shorter periods like 150,000IU a day for a few days then you can reduce to a lower dose of 5000. I've done this a few times and noticed that it increases my symptoms (wasn't on antibiotics at the time). Though while taking antibiotics it could be a good thing.

two other points I wanted to share:

Doxycycline suppresses the immune system upon each dose. I remembered something; Beta glucan (I've used Now beta-1,3/1,6-D-Glucan) is a powerful activator of the immune system. Beta glucan combined with antibiotics (google this to research) can reduce the amount of antibiotic needed to kill bacteria by HALF. Lots of abstracts to studies here: https://www.beta-glucan-13d.com/images/infectious.pdf

also heres a study I just found of how effective combining antibiotics plus glucan is. https://www.partnec.com/rd/rdgf/3/pdf22.pdf

"These findings lead to the idea
that immunotherapy using the D-fraction in combination
with antibiotics restores the damaged immune and bactericidal
functions of high-risk group patients and reduced the
dosage of VCM, effective for not only MRSA, but also
secondary infection including Lysteriosis"




Also doxycycline inhibits nitric oxide, which L-arginine increases. Nitric oxide is used to kill bacteria.


Human host defense peptide LL-37 prevents bacterial biofilm
formation.
Overhage J, Campisano A, Bains M, Torfs EC, Rehm BH, Hancock RE.

Centre for Microbial Diseases & Immunity Research, University of
British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

The ability to form biofilms is a critical factor in chronic
infections by Pseudomonas aeruginosa and has made this bacterium a
model organism with respect to biofilm formation. This study describes
a new, previously unrecognized role for the human cationic host
defense peptide LL-37. In addition to its key role in modulating the
innate immune response and weak antimicrobial activity, LL-37 potently
inhibited the formation of bacterial biofilms in vitro. This occurred
at the very low and physiologically meaningful concentration of 0.5
microg/ml, far below that required to kill or inhibit growth (MIC = 64
microg/ml). LL-37 also affected existing, pregrown P. aeruginosa
biofilms. Similar results were obtained using the bovine neutrophil
peptide indolicidin, but no inhibitory effect on biofilm formation was
detected using subinhibitory concentrations of the mouse peptide
CRAMP, which shares 67% identity with LL-37, polymyxin B, or the
bovine bactenecin homolog Bac2A. Using microarrays and follow-up
studies, we were able to demonstrate that LL-37 affected biofilm
formation by decreasing the attachment of bacterial cells, stimulating
twitching motility, and influencing two major quorum sensing systems
(Las and Rhl), leading to the downregulation of genes essential for
biofilm development.

beta glucan would be good to speed recovery, stop overgrowth of bad bacteria and candida, also reduce the amount of antibiotic needed because it makes the immune cells more effective at removing bacteria.

So are you saying we should add beta glucan to the list? On top of the quercetin, bromelain, allicin, arginine, trim/sulfa, zinc, vitamin d that i take daily - lol. Add it to the list?


If so how much should i take daily?