Department of Microbiology, College of Medicine, Yonsei University, Seoul, Korea Research Institute of Bacterial Resistance, College of Medicine, Yonsei University, Seoul, Korea Department of Chemistry and Nano Sciences, Ewha Womans University, Seoul, Korea Avian Disease Division, National Veterinary Research and Quarantine Service, Anyang, Korea Brain Korea 21 Project for Medical Sciences, College of Medicine, Yonsei University, Seoul, Korea.
Abstract
Broccoli extract (BE) has numerous beneficial effects on human health including anticancer activity. Quorum sensing (QS), mediated by self-produced autoinducer (AI) molecules, is a key process for the production of virulence determinants in pathogenic bacteria. BE suppressed AI-2 synthesis and AI-2-mediated bacterial motility in a dose-dependent manner in Escherichia coli O157:H7. In addition, expression of the ler gene that regulates AI-3 QS system was also diminished in response to treatment with BE. Furthermore, in an in vivo efficacy test using Caenorhabditis elegans as a host organism, C. elegans fed on E. coli O157:H7 in the presence of BE survived longer than those fed solely on the pathogenic bacteria. Quantitative real-time PCR analysis indicated that quercetin was the most active among the tested broccoli-derived compounds in downregulating virulence gene expression, while treatment with myricetin significantly suppressed the expression of the eae gene involved in type III secretion system. These data suggest that BE and its flavonoid constituents can inhibit expression of QS-associated genes, thereby downregulating the virulence attributes of E. coli O157:H7 both in vitro and in vivo. This study clearly elucidates BE's QS-inhibitory activity and suggests that BE has the potential to be developed as an anti-infective agent.
Quercetin at concentrations EASILY achieviable by oral dose is able to inhibit DNA gyrase (2ug/ml) and Topo IV (1ug/ml) by e coli bacteria. It's estimated that we can reach up to 10ug/ml with high enough doses...
So now, is quercetin working purely by an anit-inflammatory effect in prostatitis patients, or is it working like an antibiotic? Abx like cipro use this mechanism to kill bacteria btw.
iwillbecured I noticed my urination irritation seemed to flare both times I bought a pineapple and was adding it to my breakfast. I read through your post and noticed what you were saying about bromelain. Do you think the pineapple has enough bromelain to make a difference and these could be "good" flare ups? I am not on any anti-biotics but I am taking lugol's iodine and potassium iodide which used to be used as anti-biotics.
Nah there isn't enough bromelain in pineapple... nowhere near. Update on a regimen that should be tried:
- Full dose antibiotics 12 weeks (doxycycline, minocycline, trimethoprim or ciprofloxacin) Cipro can be taken for less time.
- Quercetin 3 times a day with 200mg bromelain each dose
- L-arginine (will increase blood supply, stimulate immune system, normalise sexual function, synergistic with antibiotics to increase metabolism of bacteria so that antibiotics can target slow growing bacteria).
- Allicin Max
- Whey protein - optional but very good addition to enhance antibiotcs and immune system).
- Broccoli broth
- Green tea - Drink it or by EGCG supplement
- Lycopene - anti-inflammatory
- Take fish oil
Be patient!!! If you get flare ups after about 4 weeks, it's probably a good thing, not a bad thing. I think it's wrong for doctors to consider treatment a failure cos 4 weeks didnt do nothing. Prostate can take 12 weeks to start feeling better and systoms to go away... even as much as 6 - 12 months! You have to stick with it... be positive. Trust me on this, during treatment it will be up and down. After a few weeks (about 6 weeks) my semen started to turn yellow! This is because of pus. The white blood cells were fighting the infection. This is good! In chronic infections it's different. Bacteria live in biofilms, mature and well established communities. They will periodically cause flare ups during treatment as you weaken the biofilm and bacteria are released which causes an immune system attack. The resulting inflammation will once again take time to settle after this everytime this happens.
I had prostatitis for 5 years. Numerous treatment faillures, but now I am seriously 100% free. Not only that, my sexual function is so good now
thanks iwillbecured, I am getting pretty down these last couple of days. I was doing ok, and thought that what I was doing was slowly helping, but now I don't know anymore. It seems like I feel just as bad today as I did in the begining.
I would go to a doctor and ask for those antibiotics if I knew it was a bacteria that was causing this, but everytime I get urine test they say its clean. I got this thick white crap on the back of my tounge that won't go away and think it may be due to candida, so I am worried about taking antiboitics.
I just wish I could do something that would give me a difinite indication, so I could proceed or change treatment, but I don't seem to get an indication from anything I have done.
Do you think I could have a bacterial problem even though I have never been able to get a discharge, even with prostate massages.
Thanks for coming back after you have cured yourself. You have provided a lot of useful info that will help a lot of people. I hope it can help me. I promise to help people with this after I am cured.
1 more question, what kind of dosages do you suggest with the ABX.
Remember that I felt worse at 4 weeks than I did at the start. There was an improvement followed by a relapse at 4 weeks. Slowly got better and around 8-10 weeks was still not normal. 10-12 weeks massive improvements, daily! Add the L-arginine supplement ( Now L-arginine ). You need a full dose for at least 12 weeks. Doxycycline at least 200mg per day (2 x 100mg a day). Trimethoprim at least 2 x 200 mg a day. (you'll get away with 300mg if you have a fairly low body weight).
Yes, I do think bacteria can still cause the problem without giving positive results. Urine cultures will almost always be clean, prostate messages and cultures from that wont always show bacteria because it depends where the bacteria is. Also the E coli can invade the cells too. As I showed in the bacteria isolated from the CPPS patient.
Listen, how I knew antibiotics work for me was from experience. Consistently I would be almost cured and relapse. From day 2-3 the antibiotic would completely eliminate the burning for me. The whole time I was on doxycycline I never experienced burning urination. Which to me indicated that the bacteria were sensitive. Also cranberry juice helped eliminate burning too! and that does it by removing the bacteria!
I have never had burning urination. My symptoms have always been frequency, or the feeling to go even when there is little amount of urine. Originally I had pain in the lower back area, which has mostly resided now, pain in the right pubic area above the testies in a very definite spot, and pain in right thigh and inbetween the right thigh and groin area. My testicles have been red, heavy, saggy and hot un comfortable feeling as well.
Now the pain in my right thigh to groin area, and the spot in my right pubic area has always kind of been off and on, and has been slowly going away to the point that a few weeks ago it has pretty much disapeared, thats why I figured i was on the right track.
I was prescribed tetracycline, and the ofloxacin (sp?), and that was months ago, but I don't rember either of them helping. I also took flagyl wich didn't help. Lamisil had the biggest effect, after the first day I had die off symtpoms, my lower back, and the right thigh/groin area seemed to hurt extra more like a flu achey feeling, and I had major diarrhea. I was happy at that point and thought it was a great sign, but after that nothing really improved.
As of right now my symptoms are frequent urination, discomfort in the groin and testicles. Testicles steel red, hot and uncomfortable. General feeling unenergitic. The muscle inbetween my groin and thigh feels like it is sore when I stretch it, and the spot where I had pain on my pelvic region is just slightly there, usually only if I touch it.
Oh yeah and my urine is foamy. The wierd thing is that it is usually foamier when it is darker or more concetrated, but when I am being clear because of lots of water intake it doesn't tend to foam to much. Today how ever it was real foamy with the clear urine. Not sure if that means anything.
Iwillbecured: I want to thank you for sticking around and sharing all you have learned. Many times people get cured and then move on with life and are never seen or heard from again. This is very helpful information you have been sharing and it's appreciated.
To everyone else on this thread, I just want to share my story and why I'm here. Some time back I contracted a urinary tract infection. I was put on many different antibiotics (6 different ones to be exact). Nothing would kill it until the last round of antibiotics where my doc used a combination of abx for 2 weeks. That got the discharge and burning in the penis to go away, however, I've been left with the residual effects of constant urge to urinate and pelvic pain in the lower back and hip joints and flair up of glands in the groin area from time to time. My doctor says there is nothing wrong with me even though I've brought up the fact that this may have causes prosatitis. So, it sounds like I'm in the same boat at Jofus. I have been searching the internet for help but haven't found anything as comprehensive as this thread. I'm fed up with antibiotics and would prefer not to use them as I had horrible side effects with some of them, however I do agree with the method Iwillbecured is preaching, of combining abx and supplements, as well as cleaning up the diet to boost the immune system.
Iwillbecured - Doxy didn't do anything for me except make symptoms worse. Is there any other abx that you are aware of that can be taken long term without causing bad side effects? I cannot take fluoroquinolones as they gave me really adverse side effects that I'm still dealing with today.
Also, I have garlic pills that say they contain 1575 mg of allium sativum per serving. Does this stuff sound like it's the right concentration or do I need something stronger.
Thanks to everyone here who is sharing their experience and treatments. It helps a lot to see stuff like this. It helps to see what treatments work and what doesn't and it helps to have a sort of support group. Many people out there do not know what it's like to live like this and it's a lonely world when you think you're the only one.
1. Doxycyclien caused relief and huge flare ups during treatment. 4 weeks into doxy I was worse than when I started. If you've had the problem a long time (years) you wont likely see resolution of symptoms until around 10-12 weeks. Combine ALL the supplement I mention with the antibiotics. The fact that doxy was making you flare is probably a good sign because it means that it's causing a die off, or rather, exposing hidden bacteria to the immune system which causes an massive influx of white blood cells causing tissue destruction which needs 'weeks' to heal. So when you're being treated you will notice a CYCLING EFFECT. Better, Worse, Better, Worse... with each time being less severe. Even at 4 weeks I started to get night sweats again, this is a good sign because it means my body was dealing with the infection. The bodies immune system is shut off to bacteria within a biofilm, it doesn't become active against it. The supplements I'm telling you all about uncovers the bacteria and makes the bacteria sensitive to the antibiotics and immune system attack. A flare up DURING treatment is a good sign, not a bad one. Unless you catch it at the acute or early stages, you will notice a cycling of symptoms.
please trust me on this. I've had 5 years of experience using mulitple antibiotics, different supplement combinations. Everytime I was so close to being cured. It took me this long to come up with a good treatment. Give it a shot. 12 weeks minimum. The supplements I mention also protect the gut a bit from bad bacteria... like the allicin and quercetin.
You need ALLICIN MAX or allimax in the US. Any other garlic supplement will NOT do.
ciprofloxacin ruined my life for 2 years. I know how bad it can be. Trimethoprim is another antibiotic that you can also combine with all the supplements I mentioned.
If the doctor stopped my antibiotics at 4 weeks because I was worse than when i started... I would have never been cured. After 12 weeks of an antibiotic that works... it might even be worthwhile sticking to a low dose 100-200mg per day of trimethoprim to allow the prostate to heal without getting reinfected.
Iwillbecured - Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry to make you repeat yourself. I did read through this thread and saw your explanation of flare ups and getting worse before getting better. Thanks for the info.
Also, did you take Doxy for 12 weeks? If I remember correctly, you took doxy for 12 weeks and then trimethropin after that?
Doxycycline reaches around 60% of the serum concentration within the prostate. Combining doxy with the supplements makes the conditions right in the prostate for better diffusion of doxy AND trimethoprim. One of the major problems of trimethoprim even is that sometimes it doesn't get to high enough concentrations because the pH of the prostate changes due to infection. So the idea I had discussed with my doctor was to prescribe the doxycycline for a few months at 200mg per day, then follow it with trimethoprim because it can reach up to 3 times the serum concentration within the prostate when there are optimal conditions, which the supplements help create over time. Plus any persisters (bacteria) that have some resistance to doxy might get wiped out by a second antibiotic.
Taking the supplements along with the antibiotics does a few things;
Creates optimal conditions for antibiotics to work
Stimulates the immune system
Reduces the risk of bacteria becoming resistant.
Reverses resistance against antibiotics by blocking quorum sensing, efflux pumps (that pump out the antibiotic). They also have synergistic, additive or indifferent effects on the antibiotics. The research on cominbing natural phytochemicals with antibiotics is plenty, if you research on the net, on pubmed or something. For example; Quercetin blocks efflux pumps and blocks quorum sensing to bacteria can't communicate. Green tea blocks efflux pumps, is anti-folate, inhibits DNA-gyrase, it reverses resistance of various various bacteria to penicillins by blocks b-lacatamses (which degrades penicillin). There are so many mechanisms I can't possibly explain them all here. I think I've given enough examples here already also showing how supplements + antibiotics are useful in animal models of bacterial prostatitis. Both of quinolones and trimethoprim. But also likely other antibiotics too, definitely including doxycycline. (i.e Bromelain increases tissue concentration and making the prostate more permeable to increased concentrations of the antibiotic). Bromelain also helps to break down fibrin which is a key component to biofilms. Bromelain also accelerates healing. Then there is the L-Arginine which is a very recent idea I had. Definitely important addition and it;s very cheap also. The problem with antibiotics is that they attack slow growing bacteria as I've mentioned. The L-arginine feeds the biofilm thus making the bacteria have a faster metabolism. THIS enables the antibiotic to start working. So any hidden bacteria within the bladder or prostate will start becoming more 'alive'. This is a trick so that the antibiotic works against it. Read the study I gave on how L-arginine works with cipro.
Yes, doxy followed by trimethoprim.
I don't know why some fear antibiotics so much. They aren't that bad... :/ I've taken them for 5 years mostly and never had any stomach issues. I've always combined supplements to prevent overgrowth of bad bacteria in the stomach or candida. Deal with the prostate issue, then deal with the stomach. And listen, during the time I was being treated I had an overgrowth of candida on the head of the penis. Thrush. Yet my symptoms were still going away. It's NOT the cause of the majority of cases. If you have a functioning immune system. Don't worry! Candida has a short lifespan, levels go up and down. Once off antibiotics the thrush always disappeared rapidly for me anyway.
Now I'm still working close to 40 hours per week, week after week, and no problems! 
Read the study I gave on how L-arginine works with cipro. 
Linear Mode
