#166  
Old 10-09-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind
Quote:
NaClO2 caused substantial depletion of intracellular glutathione
But we are not taking in sodium chlorite. We are taking in chlorine dioxide. a different chemical structure with different results.
I think that the results will be the same because the mode of action of sodium chlorite/chlorine dioxide is to be eventually converted to hypochlorite. The sodium chlorite form allows us to take it in safely, but when the battle with pathogens ensues, this quickly becomes hypochlorite. So if we have pathogens that need to be killed off, we expect hypochlorite to be produced and we may need SOD and glutathione to protect the "bystanders."

Just how I see it at the moment. 8)

Gerry
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind
Quote:
NaClO2 caused substantial depletion of intracellular glutathione
But we are not taking in sodium chlorite. We are taking in chlorine dioxide. a different chemical structure with different results.
Quote:
Fundam Appl Toxicol, 1984 Jun, 4(3 Pt 1), 479 - 84
Pharmacodynamics of alcide, a new antimicrobial compound, in rat and rabbit; Scatina J et al.; Alcide is a germicidal preparation which has been shown to kill a wide range of common pathogenic bacteria as well as fungi, in vitro . This preparation is composed of Part A and Part B which contains sodium chlorite (NaClO2) and lactic acid as the active ingredients, respectively . The two parts are combined in equal volumes immediately prior to application resulting in the formation of chlorine dioxide (ClO2) . Alcide gel was applied to the shaven backs of 18 female Sprague-Dawley rats in a 2.0-g/kg dose by combining 1 g of each part immediately prior to administration . This dose was applied for a period of 10 days to reach a steady state . On the 11th day, 36Cl-labeled Alcide gel, which contained Na36ClO2 in Part A, was administered to the animals in a 0.6-g dose (2.0 g/kg) containing 0.1 microCi . The half-life for 36Cl absorption was 22.1 hr while the elimination half-life was 64.0 hr . 36Cl was excreted by the kidneys with chloride (Cl-) and chlorite as the metabolites . Ninety-six hours after Alcide administration, radioactivity was highest in whole blood and lowest in fat . In a 90-day subchronic dermal toxicity study in rabbits, exposure to Alcide gel resulted in decreased glutathione concentrations in blood of the group receiving 2.0 g/kg Alcide as well as in the placebo gel group which received the same dose of gel. https://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...t/4/3part1/479
Quote:
Significantly decreased testicular deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) synthesis was noted in male rats given
chlorine dioxide or chlorite (as sodium salt) in the drinking water for 3 months at concentrations that
resulted in estimated chlorine dioxide and chlorite doses ≥1.3 and 0.13 mg/kg/day, respectively
(Abdel-
Rahman et al. 1984b), and other male rats exposed for 3 weeks to a concentration that resulted in a
chlorine dioxide dose of 13 mg/kg/day or a chlorite dose of 1.3 mg/kg/day (Suh et al. 1983). https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp160-c3.pdf
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  #168  
Old 10-09-2007, 09:38 PM
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We just went through this, on another channel.
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  #169  
Old 10-10-2007, 03:32 AM
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Ok. Uncle! Uncle!

But are we ingesting enough of it to really significantly affect our glutathione concentrations?

I take ALA and the other stuff everyday anyway. But should it be recommended to those using MMS? Even if they are just on it for a month or so? a week or so?
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Old 10-10-2007, 03:43 AM
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Food sources of glutathione

https://www.nutritionadvisor.com/glutathione_foods.php. And a chart which shows the difference in glutathione content between cooked and raw foods - if this page can take it!


Table 1. Comparison of Glutathione in Fresh vs. Cooked Foods
(in milligrams per 3 1/2 oz (100 g) serving)
Food Glutathione Content
Apples Uncooked: 21.0 mg Cooked: 0.0 mg
Carrots Uncooked: 74.6 mg Cooked: 0.0 mg
Grapefruit Uncooked: 70.6 mg Cooked: 0.0 mg
Spinach Uncooked: 166 mg Cooked: 27.1 mg
Spinach (4) Uncooked: 9.65 mg Cooked: N/A mg
Tomatoes Uncooked: 169 mg Cooked: 0.0 mg
Asparagus (4) Uncooked: 28.3 mg Cooked: N/A mg
Avocado (4) Uncooked: 27.7 mg Cooked: N/A mg
Purslane (4) Uncooked: 14.81 mg Cooked: N/A mg

This site makes the point that supplementing with glutathione is much less effective that obtaining it from foods.
  #171  
Old 10-10-2007, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor
We just went through this, on another channel.
Who is we?

Are you suggesting that everyone that matters,
has already been fully informed at HSI?

Are you saying that MedSciTalk is redundant?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind
Ok. Uncle! Uncle!

But are we ingesting enough of it to really significantly affect our glutathione concentrations?
If topical application of sodium chlorite or chlorine dioxide can significantly reduce glutathione,
what would ingestion do?
  #172  
Old 10-10-2007, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind
But are we ingesting enough of it to really significantly affect our glutathione concentrations?
I think this would depend on how much pathogens we have, which would cause the hypochlorite release from chlorine dioxide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy Dalrymple
If topical application of sodium chlorite or chlorine dioxide can significantly reduce glutathione, what would ingestion do?
Reading the quote of the Alcide gel study, I see that while the application was topical, it was still absorbed into the body. So this isn't a reaction to the topical application, but to the systemic absorption, no different from ingestion. This brings up an interesting idea: is the lactic acid-chlorine dioxide preparation absorbed through the skin? or did that gel preparation contain DMSO?

I notice another thing in the study: excretion products include chlorite! The chlorine dioxide (chlorite) was excreted intact, showing my presumption that if the chlorite does not encounter a microbe, then hypochlorite will not be produced and the molecule remains intact and is excreted as such. (This is just my presumption, though.)

On another note, but related to the study cited, do we see ourselves taking MMS or related products daily? I would think that we would just be taking it for some specific condition, maybe initially taking it just to clear up any possible, but unknown, condition present. But to take it regularly? I could liken it to taking an antibiotic regularly, which should not really be the case. Besides, I think our immune system should be doing the work, and MMS just boosts it by delivering hypochlorite for immediate use.

Gerry
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy Dalrymple
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballdoctor
We just went through this, on another channel.
Who is we?

Are you suggesting that everyone that matters,
has already been fully informed at HSI?

Quote:
Are you saying that MedSciTalk is redundant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowwind
Ok. Uncle! Uncle!

But are we ingesting enough of it to really significantly affect our glutathione concentrations?
If topical application of sodium chlorite or chlorine dioxide can significantly reduce glutathione,
what would ingestion do?
Iggy, thats just silly.
Here's the deal about MMS. Its been exactly two weeks today since I got the product. I'm on the 8th day of my double-dose of 15 drops, which means I should be completely done next Tuesday night.
According to my calculations, that will be a total of less than 500 drops in 20 days, or an average of approx 25 drops per day.
There are 650--- 6 drop doses in a 4 ounce bottle, or 3900 drops.
That means I will have used 1/8 of 4 ounces, or approx half an ounce.
We're talking about a GRAND TOTAL OF HALF AN OUNCE.
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  #174  
Old 10-10-2007, 03:44 PM
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Too much reading, Im getting confused!!!! Did I read somewhere, to not use DMSO while taking the mms??? I think we have decided that the heel pain is a bone spur. It is beginning to make life unmanageble. I reread some of the post from that other side, and a quick fix by leppart was msm.... so I am at the moment taking 2000mg of msm... will that help get rid of the pain... Will the MMS do anything to/for a bone spur if I soaked my foot in the MMS (half way kidding!) I was going to put DMSO on it, with some kava, but thought I remembered that DMSO is a nono when using the MMS... The plans are getting some calcium/magnesium and boron tomorrow, but I need to get some sleep.. I dont know if the pain is actually worse then what it has been, or if since the rest of the pain in my feet is gone with the swelling, that I notice the heel pain more..does that make sense????

Ok, got to finish dinner.. will check in later... thanks for the help.
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  #175  
Old 10-10-2007, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just me
Too much reading, Im getting confused!!!! Did I read somewhere,
Quote:
to not use DMSO while taking the mms
??? I think we have decided that the heel pain is a bone spur. It is beginning to make life unmanageble. I reread some of the post from that other side, and a quick fix by leppart was msm.... so I am at the moment taking 2000mg of msm... will that help get rid of the pain... Will the MMS do anything to/for a bone spur if I soaked my foot in the MMS (half way kidding!) I was going to put DMSO on it, with some kava, but thought I remembered that DMSO is a nono when using the MMS... The plans are getting some calcium/magnesium and boron tomorrow, but I need to get some sleep.. I dont know if the pain is actually worse then what it has been, or if since the rest of the pain in my feet is gone with the swelling, that I notice the heel pain more..does that make sense????

Ok, got to finish dinner.. will check in later... thanks for the help.
The warning about DMSO is still on the bottle label, but the author says its safe. He wasn't sure at the time, but now he says its ok to use MMS with DMSO.
Now lets talk about heel spurs. In MOST cases, depending upon age and body weight, a heel spur can be reversed with calcium/magnesium. Some would suggest that the spur is due to calcium, so supplementing with more calcium makes no sense, but it does, and here's why:
When people get older, usually over 40, and generally heavier, calcium absorbsion becomes much less, somewhere around 30% of what you injest. The rest is not absorbed. That means if you are taking in 600mg of calcium, you absorb only about 200mg, which is not enough. The body tries to compensate by taking calcium from where it is, the bones, and that is what causes a spur. Its a calcium "point" that appears to be "pulled" away from the bone, and is sharp enough to cause tissue damage (and major inflamation) when you put pressure on it. There are two things that you can do to reverse a spur.
1> take 2000mg in divided doses of 1:1 calcium/magnesium from citrate.
2> wear an insole with a hole in it, so when you step down, the pain will be minimal until you reverse it using step 1. Also, using magnets will help speed up the process, although I don't know alot about using magnets.
Option "B" is needles in the heels or surgery.
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  #176  
Old 10-10-2007, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Option "B" is needles in the heels or surgery.
Surgury isnt an option... no medical insurance, plus because of the job I do, I cant be laid up or off my feet at any time.... Now as for needles, if Xania were to come to my house, I would allow her to do all the needle poking her little heart desires...But considering the fact that there is an ocean between her and I, I cant imagine her coming anytime soon... Any chance Xania????
But, the calcium and magnesium will be gotten tomorrow, and started tomorrow.... For the moment, I am boiling some kava root, to soak my foot in to see if I can get it calmed down a bit tonite....
Thanks for the info, I greatly appreciate it
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  #177  
Old 10-11-2007, 02:27 AM
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Are you treating anything specifically pinballdoctor?

I am curious how you arrived at two doses of 15 drops for your experiment.

I have worked up to 15 drops and am done taking it, since I am not really treating anything specifically. Other than the runs, and some possible parasite cleansing, nothing significant to report. It did not seem to bother my Crohn's which is kind of surprising. I quite taking all my supplements midway into the experiment since they are mostly antioxidents. In spite of that, I have had no problems.

As far as I can tell, it did me no harm, but I would like to hear more reports of people with actual illnesses that are taking it. I do not think I would take it every day as a preventative. That seems somewhat extreme. I think it may be something to use once a year to make sure you are not harboring any new critters.

D Bergy
  #178  
Old 10-11-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bergy
Are you treating anything specifically pinballdoctor?

I am curious how you arrived at two doses of 15 drops for your experiment.

I have worked up to 15 drops and am done taking it, since I am not really treating anything specifically. Other than the runs, and some possible parasite cleansing, nothing significant to report. It did not seem to bother my Crohn's which is kind of surprising. I quite taking all my supplements midway into the experiment since they are mostly antioxidents. In spite of that, I have had no problems.

As far as I can tell, it did me no harm, but I would like to hear more reports of people with actual illnesses that are taking it. I do not think I would take it every day as a preventative. That seems somewhat extreme. I think it may be something to use once a year to make sure you are not harboring any new critters.

D Bergy
I am following the authors' protocol, to start with as little as one drop, and work your way up. he states a second dose is necessary within two hours of the first dose. Increase by one drop with every dose til you get to 15 drops twice per day. If any problems arise, such as vomitting, to back down one drop, but not to stop taking it. Once the body is used to that dose, no more nausea, then continue to increase the dose.
Once you are at a double dose of 15 drops, maintain that for 14 days.
I must be in good health, as I have had no problems. I take my vitamins/supplements in the morning, and two doses of MMS in the evening. If I had Crohn's, I would do the complete protocol.
I will not be taking the 6 drop-per-day maintenance dose until more information becomes available on long term use. However, I am stocking up on the product for insurance purposes, and will otherwise use it once or twice per year.
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  #179  
Old 10-11-2007, 12:55 PM
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Thank you for the reply. I guess I misunderstood the instructions.

Does anyone know for sure what the shelf life of MMS is? I would like to stock a bit myself, but it seems like something that may deteriorate fairly fast.

D Bergy
  #180  
Old 10-11-2007, 03:53 PM
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It is my understanding that sodium chlorite (aka MMS) does not deteriorate. However when combined with citric acid it forms chlorine dioxide (this is the active ingredient) and this does have a rather short life. (approx. 2hrs.)
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